GOC

[George Australia]

You might want try matching it up with the pre-Vatican 2 RC calendar instead, as more will match up this way. Regardless the "New Calendar" is the Gregorian Calendar with a Julian Pashalion attached except in Finland where they are full Gregorian in order to get the oft-coveted precious tax money from the government.

OK This will be my final post on Euphrosynos cafe, firstly, because I feel we're on the outskirts of Looney Land here, heading for city center; secondly because I'm getting more and more convinced that the so-called "strict traditionalists" have painted themselves into a corner and now need to find excuses for prejudice and division, and thirdly, whenever I ask a direct question, it is sidestepped (yourself included Dcn. Nicholas} and whenever I present objective facts, I get subjective opinion presented back to me as though it were facts (yourself included Dcn. Nicholas}. You still refuse to see that even if match of even 80 percent were possible between the New Calendar and Gregorian Menain, it would still not beat a match of 100 percent with the Old Calendar.
To sin is human, but to persist in sin is demonic. I'd rather be among those who genuinely seek the truth rather than cleave to unfounded prejudice and seek division. Please note that I will not respond to any private messages, so please don't be offended.

[尼古拉前执事]

Dear George,

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   I will be sorry to see you go. I honestly could not understand the logic in your last several posts trying to explain that the Gregorian Calendar with or without a Julian Paschalion attached is not the Gregorian Calendar when the numbers all line up with one another. Again, if you find ecumenism a persistant sin I do not see why you would defend the groups involved in it and if you are against division why you would be in the Cyprian Synod who will soon be breaking communion with ROCOR according to their own words.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

There is a match of 5 percent between the Gergorian and Revised Julian Menaion, as compared to a match of 100 percent between the Revised Julian and Old Calendar Menaion. So could you please explain what you mean by "in essence the "revised" Julian Menaion is the same as the Gregorian Menaion"?

I don't feel, and I have never felt, that the Orthodox need to defend tradition, that is, why the Churches calendar should be kept. I think it is much more enlightening to hear the reasons why the Churches calendar needs to be changed, or rather, replaced, whether you believe it is very similiar or not.

I think George, you will burn through a bottle of whiskey and a dozen pain killers trying to find out why these few people changed their calendar when all you would have to do is cast a glance at the Encyclical of 1920. Now who has formented division (namely between themselves and the church)? When have the Orthodox EVER been obliged to follow heretics?

In fact, that their changes have brought such divisions is just more evidence that they are not Orthodox; that is, because whenever the Orthodox change something it is for the glory of God, which always promotes unity.

[Chrysostomos]

In fact, that their changes have brought such divisions is just more evidence that they are not Orthodox; that is, because whenever the Orthodox change something it is for the glory of God, which always promotes unity.

So were the changes by Patriarch Nikon correct and did they bring glory to God OOD?

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Chrysostomos,

Maybe I could get an answer to my questions first?

[joasia]

Well, I'm still confused. I thought that there were two calendars, Julian and Gregorian. Period. And that they are 13 days apart.

The Gregorian calendar shifts into the Great Lent cycle, but then switches back after Pentecost and can miss the fast for St. Peter and Paul, all together. That to me is inconsistent and chaotic. I'll just stick to the Julian calendar, as followed by the Holy Fathers, thank you very much.

Romiosini mentioned that St. John Chrysostom was celebrating one feast when others were celebrating Christmas. From what I've read, the specific feast dates were not established, as of yet, so there were many differences, but eventually the hierarchs, by the guidance of the Holy Spirit decided the dates. Just the same, the dates were based on the Julian calendar. Pushing the calendar 10 days forward, by the whim of Pope Gregory, doesn't make any sense. Just sounds like he wanted to create a further gulf between the West and East. But now, the East is on the band wagon too.

And I just realized that on the Julian calendar (Feb 2nd), is the Meeting of Our Lord and Saviour (which is tomorrow). I completely forgot to check my schedule. I missed vespers and can't go for Liturgy tomorrow.

[Chrysostomos]

Maybe I could get an answer to my questions first?

George,

Stick around and answer OOD's question to you, so then he will have to answer mine!

With humble bow,

Rd. Chrysostomos