ROCOR

[Justin Kissel]

OOD,

I was wondering when you were going to say something

My how fast the ROCOR is hopping around communing with different synods all the while changing their views, and as always, after the fact, we have the ROCOR apologists arguing, "that's how it has always been!".

But... can you answer the question I asked in my last post? Can you give some details as to who, when, and under what circumstances ROCOR has condemned a hierarch or synod? We might say that canons or anathemas "apply themselves" insomuch as they will be a witness against someone on judgment day, but surely while still on earth someone, somewhere has to apply the canon or anathema through the proper ecclesiastical process for it to be valid? And what will you make of things if Anastasios produced the document he is speaking of?

[Anastasios]

Bp Alexander's words are saddening. I wonder if he objected to Metropolitan Pavlos being led into the altar at Met Laurus's installation in 2001.

"Schismatic" and "uncanonical." That's a good one. Now that he sees he is about to enter "officialdom" he has the nerve to call others who are in the same boat that ROCOR was in even 15 years ago names. Sad.

Anastasios

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Justin,

I just made some side comments, not really meaning to get involved here.

The faith we have is the faith which is handed down to us. This entire faith is found in an Orthodox Church each Sunday. It teaches us all we need: how to confess, how to Commune, how to pray, how to love God, how to love the people around us, and ultimately, how to be like Christ. These are very basic and simple things, and that is all we need – our local Church. But because the church has enemies, it has always been essential for people to uphold the faith beyond those simple elements. The God illumined Holy Fathers documented every detail about the faith because they could not protect Holy Communion on Sunday without protecting the idea that Christ was a man, and God, and how that in fact was. They could not protect the faith as it is with regard to your bishop, icons, and a host of other beliefs without more detailed explanations.

Therefore, for as much as anyone can talk about anathemas, canons, councils, writings of the saints, ect., we must all realize the Faith cannot be encapsulated by any set of rules, list of anathemas, or minutes of any number of councils. It is so much more than all of these things. The Church, which has often been composed of just a few people on earth, has all of the power in the universe to decide which anathema, council, and canon is Orthodox. In fact, if there ever comes a day the ecumenist heretics have their “Ecumenical Council”, it will be the Church which will decide if it is Orthodox or not.

So I honestly don’t think I could every answer this question satisfactorily. You can remove this anathema from all memory and nothing will have changed. This anathema, like all anathemas, only describes what has always been. So who is the friend of God and who is His enemy? As with everything else, Christ leaves it up to each individual and their conscience to understand, accept or reject Him.

I am sorry if I am coming off as rude, I don’t mean to. I am just speaking freely and that is often not very polished as you well know.

[Anastasios]

OK I took a look at the original of this:

3. The Eucharistic communion in which the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia exists, formally, at any rate, with uncanonical groups which have separated for various reasons from other Local Orthodox Churches, some active on the canonical territories of Romania, Bulgaria and the Greek Churches. Recently these groups have tried to also expand their activity on our canonical territory and the territory of the Georgian Patriarch. [Alas, we have been guilty of creating schismatic groups and are in Eucharistic communion with schismatic churches. Bp. A.]
[Emphasis mine]

#3 is written by Metropolitan Kyrill of Smolensk, and is HIS opinion of the situation of ROCOR's communion with Met Cyprian.

Bp Alexander's opinion is in bold.

(I still think Bp Alexander's opinion is sad.)

Here is the source: http://www.fatheralexander.org/latest/p ... 9-04_e.htm

[joasia]

You see? This is what I mean when I say that I am sick and tired about the stuff going around. We have clergy who concelebrate with and don't concelebrate with...they oppose ecumenism or they don't, directly, deny it.

We have clergy who say this and say that. And what does it do, but create arguements amongst us laity. The bishops and priests should be the ones answering for all these dilemmas. WE shouldn't be arguing amongst ourselves about it. THEY are the ones that have to answer.

Just because I am going to a ROCOR church doesn't mean that I agree with their vague statements and their mistaken actions. After all, it's run by men who have big egos. Only time will tell.

I've seen more considerable thought put in these posts than what the hierarchs have exibited.

[1937 Miraculous Cross]

Dear Joasia,

You said:

You see? This is what I mean when I say that I am sick and tired about the stuff going around. We have clergy who concelebrate with and don't concelebrate with...they oppose ecumenism or they don't, directly, deny it.

Like many of us who have already left ROCOR, you just finally get sick of the mixed messages and your conscience begins to tell you that there is something gone very awry. Then you start looking elsewhere for a new Church with "better" bishops. At that point you can get more confused as you practically have to earn a PhD in modern Church history to make any sense out of all the mulitple versions of "who said what and who did what, and for what reason".

However, God will lead you, at least that is my belief. There are bishops out there who still proclaim with a singular voice the Truth of Orthodoxy.

Nectarios

[Liudmilla]

BOTTOM LINE......All that is left for us confused, PhD-less, misguided, guideless souls is to pray that God will guide us to where we need to be.

All the jurisdiction bashing and infighting amoungst ourselves as to who is right and who is wrong only serves the purpose of evil and not the purpose of the Heaven Father. Perphaps our Bishops need to get down on their collective knees for a thousand days like St Seraphim and pray that God enlightens them with knowledge and wisdom.

Not that I believe any of them will have the stamina or courage to do so (my own opinion) for they seem to have more faith in themselves and their "wisdom" than faith in God and His Wisdom.

Milla