Hey, excuse my red face... my scarf is on too tight.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Not simply because she was not Orthodox

Simply not Orthodox?? My goodness Tom, and I recall a time when I foolishly tried to convince you headscarves were important.

Being Orthodox would in fact be a prerequisite to be considered a Saint, or even a Baptized Christian for that matter. The foundation of the Church (and therefore the saints) is Christ, who is the Truth. Without this truth we can speak neither of the Church or of a Saint. A Bad tree does not bear good fruit.

We see her as a woman who was outside the Church, if she is anything more than this then that is up to God to know and decide. Do not admire her more than the Church of Christ.

[Aristokles]

Thank you, OOD.
My erstwhile friend, TomΣ, seems to be in an apostate snit lately.

Demetri

[TomS]

Thank you, OOD.
My erstwhile friend, TomΣ, seems to be in an apostate snit lately.

Not at all, Demetri. That was a serious question. I really did not think that THAT would be the sole reason. That suprises me since the Orthodox Church (at least from what I recall) recognizes the saintly works of those who are non-Orthodox. Or maybe that is just the opinion of my Priest?

[joasia]

That suprises me since the Orthodox Church (at least from what I recall) recognizes the saintly works of those who are non-Orthodox. Or maybe that is just the opinion of my Priest?

That doesn't make any sense, Tom. Perhaps, it was just your priest's personal opinion. I've never heard of the Orthodox Church recognizing such a thing, on an OFFICIAL basis...that would mean that the clergy would be commemorating them(during Liturgy) if it was on the level of the Orthodox Church dogma. What kind of church do you go to, anyways?

Joanna

[Aristokles]

Thank you, OOD.
My erstwhile friend, TomΣ, seems to be in an apostate snit lately.

Not at all, Demetri. That was a serious question. I really did not think that THAT would be the sole reason. That suprises me since the Orthodox Church (at least from what I recall) recognizes the saintly works of those who are non-Orthodox. Or maybe that is just the opinion of my Priest?

I am not so certain that this IS the opinion of your priest TomΣ. Perhaps you are (mis)interpreting what he does tell you or he is giving you abbreviated answers and not realizing how you are taking them.
I am not being confrontational here or 'shooting from the hip'. Three weeks ago I had a lunch meeting with my GOAA archimandrite priest to review the website I am designing for our parish. After we concluded that and before leaving the rectory office for lunch I took my priest on a cyber-tour of the Web, icluding OC.nyet. We came to some of your earlier posts (contraception, to be exact) and he was aghast. He said: " I personally know that priest! There's no way he meant that!" I had no rejoinder, of course.

Demetri

[joasia]

Are most Orthodox converts as confused as TomS? Doubting Thomas...hey, it just hit me. :idea: Ouch. I don't know too many converts.

I know that I come off strong-minded about how things are done, but I don't understand how someone believes he's Orthodox and holds on to the old ways. I renounced the catholic heresy when I blew three times to the west. I see that protestants have been taught to question everything, which is good, because it can lead them to Orthodoxy, but then they question everything within that realm. There has to be a point where they should stop and just feel the faith.

When I went to the Orthodox priest with my spiritual dilemma, I felt that God was calling me to Him. One Saturday, I was driven to find this priest that I heard about, cause he could speak English(he's Greek). I was determined to see this through. And I could not possibly reject this calling. It was meant to be. It was a very special moment in my life.

Tom, I haven't read all your posts, but can you explain that special moment that you decided to become Orthodox? Is there a thread that has discussed this? That's what I'm looking for. Some exchange of experiences. That's why I got frustrated in the first place and started this thread. I have become too caught up with arguements and forgot about what I was seeking when I came here in the first place.

Should this be another thread? It's probably been talked to death already.

Any assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.

Joanna

[Natasha]

"There has to be a point where they should stop and just feel the faith. "

Beautifully put Joasia