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Michael000 · Post by **Michael000** » Thu 24 June 2004 1:53 pm

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OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Thu 24 June 2004 3:07 pm

Michael111,

I am very glad you were able to overcome alcohol abuse. Now with a clear head and a life free from slavery to such things, you can focus on your salvation.

Alcohol is potentially poison as many things. TV for example, can be very poisonous to the soul. But at the same time, these things can be used for great things. Take wine for instance, it is the substance used during the Divine Services which is sactified and becomes the precious Blood of our Lord and Savior.

I think then that the real poison is anything that corrupts our soul, not protecting us, and often showing us the way of self-corruption. We should be vigilant then against corrupting and being corrupted. This is why we need to emmerse ourlselves in the Orthodox Church!

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » Fri 25 June 2004 5:39 pm

I am also glad that Michael111 has overcome his addictions.

That said, I also believe that alcoholic beverages are gifts of God to man to be enjoyed in moderation and with restraint.

Some folks cannot use them.

Others can give God thanks, make the Holy Sign of the Cross, and enjoy a glass of beer or wine or whatever.

Let's not invent new laws of men and place them alongside or before the laws of God.

Christianity is not the teetotalers' religion.

Islam is.

Michael000 · Post by **Michael000** » Mon 28 June 2004 2:17 pm

Lucian wrote:
I am also glad that Michael111 has overcome his addictions.

That said, I also believe that alcoholic beverages are gifts of God to man to be enjoyed in moderation and with restraint.

Fruits, vegetables, etc... are natural

alcohol is a man-made toxin

Michael111

_cizinec_ · Post by **_cizinec_** » Mon 28 June 2004 2:25 pm

I can understand where Michael is coming from and I think it is probably the best way for him to see things.

Chuck was my mother's first cousin and a legend in our family. He was a famous doctor who developed a new way of reconnecting nerves. He was a brilliant, nice man. Two years ago he died because he had developed infections in his legs from sores developed because his liver was failing and he couldn't make it to alcohol. Without alcohol, the shock killed him. My aunt found him several days later lying on the floor.

My mother won't drink anything. I make beer (and I love it), but I'm always conscious of what it can do and I understand that some people have to make a bright line rule so that they aren't tempted at all. I also limit myself and teach my son about the dangers of drinking so that he doesn’t have to give it up and can enjoy what it is.

For those who can't take the temptation without sinning, Christianity is a tea-toting religion. For me, there are certain shows that I can’t watch and certain places I can’t go without sinning. A lot of other folks can go there no problem. We all have our crosses to bear.

Michael000 · Post by **Michael000** » Mon 28 June 2004 3:15 pm

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Schultz · Post by **Schultz** » Mon 28 June 2004 4:59 pm

So I suppose that Christ was wrong,then, when he turned water into wine at Cana? He was, of course, enabling and even encouraging sin, by your logic. Does not the Psalm we hear at the beginning of Vespers praise that God has created "wine that gladdens the heart of man"? (Ps 103:14)

"'Go eat your bread with enjoyment, and drink your wine with a merry heart, for God has already approved what you do'" (Eccl. 9:7)

I agree with OOD (imagine that!). Many good things are potentially poisonous. That does not make them, in essence, bad.