Lord Have Mercy!

romiosini · Post by **romiosini** » Tue 27 January 2004 8:50 pm

Lord Have Mercy!

fserafim · Post by **fserafim** » Tue 27 January 2004 10:50 pm

Alas! Many do. That is why we have so many splinter groups in Orthodoxy. The smaller church the greater the title etc....

Fr Serafim

fserafim · Post by **fserafim** » Tue 27 January 2004 10:59 pm

Sorry to be controversial but our parish is larger than some dioceses in America. I know numbers don't count (sic!) when compared with quality of spiritual life. But I often wonder how people are content to receive exalted ranks and titles when they would probably not get beyond subdeacon in established autocephalous churhces. OK you are right and you refuse to compromise with world Orthodoxy. So why not just stay as you are or atleast don't ape the titles of those whom you oppose.

I remember a ROCOR hieromonk telling me that when he attend a tea-party hosted by the Archbishop of Canterbury, he was shocked to see how many Metropolitans, Archbishops, Archimandrites and Protosingulars came out of the wood work! Again the smaller the group, maybe one or two, the larger the crosses, panayias and coloured kamilavkas!

Stand by your convictions but don't pose as the Patriarch of Timbuctoo.

Fr Serafim

user_245 · Post by **user_245** » Wed 28 January 2004 6:54 am

While personally I am content serving my parish as I have, I will admit I am proud of my dad, he is a tonsured (sp?) reader. It's not the title so much, it's the feeling of joy I get when I hear him read the Epistle on Sundays.

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Wed 28 January 2004 9:23 am

Fr Serafim,

While nobody would deny what you said is true in part, it is much more true that the most noticable splinter group is very large and contradicts much of what you said.

I don't see very many people receiving mitres in "world orthodoxy" at all. So why do you suppose they have left the faith? Perhaps if not for a mitre but for the love of the world.

It is also true that the vast majority of those who have left the ecumenist orthodox church are in fact doing so because Orthodoxy demands this of them. I believe your sweeping condemnation above is a tad reckless and somewhat of a fig leaf for a shameless and unjustifiable communion.

fserafim · Post by **fserafim** » Wed 28 January 2004 2:36 pm

No fig leaves here! I am making a sweeping statement to clean up the pretensious position of those Orthodox groups that have more chiefs than indians. It is a proven fact, which I will not debate here, that even defrocked characters have gone off to form their own church and then promote themselves a la vagante with grandiose titles. One of these actually returned to an established church in such an exalted rank. Shame on the jurisdiction that sanctioned this abuse of clerical rank.

Fr Serafim

www.pokrov-seattle.org

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Wed 28 January 2004 4:14 pm

Fr. Serafim,

I think each individual case would need to be looked at to comment on. There are certainly many individuals (and that's what they are - individuals) parading around as bishops but who are not.

In the end, if they be members of the Church they transmit the Grace as any other Bishop would - they will however have to answer for themselves as will I.

So I don't think it is important for me to know all of the hidden personal adgendas of each and every bishop or priest, it is only important for me to know the faith they confess publicly. With this in mind, I wonder what objections you have with communing with known heretics, now that we know how you feel about people seeking glory.