Fr. Hilarion Alfeyev(MP) and the WCC.

DIscussion and News concerning Orthodox Churches in communion with those who have fallen into the heresies of Ecumenism, Renovationism, Sergianism, and Modernism, or those Traditional Orthodox Churches who are now involved with Name-Worshiping, or vagante jurisdictions. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Peter,

Even though Seraphim Reeves pointed out a significant flaw, a document such as this says nothing. It is not enough to point to one supposedly "good apple" to say the entire bushel is good. Again, the "proof is in the pudding", in their actions and where their signatures are going.

To prove my point, and since you seem fond of interviews, here are the statements of another one of the apples IN YOUR BUSHEL....

http://wwwuser.gwdg.de/grabo/news/iwas-oekumene.html

His "Holiness" Mar Ignatious Zakkâ I of the Syriac neo-orthodox/monophysite union Church...

Q. How do you assess the present state of the ecumenical movement, internationally and in the Middle East?

A. The ecumenical movement is a blessing which has manifested itself in the Holy Church through individuals inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Church's counselor who reminds it of all the teachings of the Lord Jesus. We are very optimistic that the ecumenical movement will succeed. It will continue to succeed wherever it exists, in all arenas, in all dimensions and at all levels.

In the Middle East we see our council the Middle East Council of Churches to be rare among councils in the world. It gathers together all the churches at one round table. In most councils of churches, for instance, we will not find the Catholic family a member. From the beginning of the '90s, this family has been a vital and effective member of the MECC.

For this reason we have great confidence that this council, that has played such an important role in Christian rapprochement, will carry on in this significant role, keeping the wheel of ecumenical progress rolling forward.

Our Syrian Orthodox church is also a member of the World Council of Churches. We should work to see that great ecumenical body flourish as well. And we try to play a role in the world through our firm faith in what our forefathers bequeathed to us: a liberal doctrine, a rich heritage, and a holy language the Syro-Aramaic language which the Lord Jesus spoke. [my note: :shock: ]

Here I would like to affirm that ecumenism is not new to our church. Ever since the fifth century when the church divided, our fathers have addressed themselves to this matter. They believed that the restoration of communion among the churches and their cooperation in matters ecclesiastical and pastoral were necessary for maintaining the true Christian life of the Holy Church.

It is worth noting that our church has been an active member of the World Council of Churches since 1960. In 1975, when I was a bishop, I was elected a member of the WCC's central committee at the Nairobi General Assembly. In 1998 I was elected one of the WCC's presidents of this council by the Harare General Assembly.

We believe in the benefit of the ecumenical movement. For that reason, from the time I took office as Patriarch, I have energized and encouraged the ecumenical work in our church which our predecessor of blessed memory, Yaqoub III, began. We have included the area of "ecumenics" in the theological curriculum of our seminary. And we have directed our clergy and laity to get involved ecumenically locally, regionally and internationally.

Q. In Your Holiness's view, what is the best way to achieve Christian unity?

A. The best way to achieve Christian unity is to exhibit the grace of Christian love. Without it we cannot call ourselves the disciples of the Christ who said, "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." (John 13:35) And the only way to exhibit the grace of love is to apply the Golden Rule which the Lord Jesus gave to us: "In everything, do to others as you would have them do to you." (Matthew 7:12)

Q. In Your Holiness's view, what are the obstacles on the road to unity?

A. All that stands against love. In the past some of us thought that lack of unanimity on theological issues stood as the instrumental obstacle on the path of this unity. After leaders of the MECC, the WCC and other councils' churches had convened seminars, meetings and dialogues, it became clear in the theological meetings that the theological disagreements which divided the churches from eachother were disagreements on the way we chose to express the one belief verbally. [seems like there allot of that goning on today] They were not disagreements in substance. :shock: In the end, they do not pose an insurmountable obstacle to achieving rapprochement between churches, especially given the fact that all these churches adhere to one Nicene Creed. :shock: We thank God that, as representatives of churches, we have sat around a table and had dialogue in a Christian spirit. In that we have found that what unites and gathers us together is immeasurably greater than that which separates us. :shock:

Q. Is unity really necessary?

A. In this there is no doubt: Unity is a necessity to enliven and strengthen witness to Christ in this world. Some of our faithful fathers have taught that division in the Church is a grave sin; unity, therefore, is a heavenly grace

Q. What are the steps which Your Holiness has taken on the path of unity?

A. In the context of our relations with the Orthodox and Catholic churches, we have historical positions. Among these is our having signed a common declaration with Pope John Paul II in 1984 which has great ecumenical significance. In 1991 we also signed a very important statement with His Beatitude Patriarch Ignatios IV Hazîm of Antioch.

In the most recent Orthodox meeting which was convened at the Monastery of St. Ephraim the Syrian in the Convent of Sadnâyâ which we attended along with His Beatitude Ignatios Hazîm, we affirmed that the stimulating work and intensive studies which the theologians of our churches have carried forward have gone a long way toward reconciling perspectives between the two Orthodox families. We have high hopes that eucharistic barriers between us will be lifted, and that the holy synods will agree to restoring communion between all Orthodox churches of the two families. [WHICH HAS HAPPENED, BETWEEN THE TWO FAMILIES SINCE THIS INTERVIEW WAS GIVEN IN 1999] :ohvey:

We also direct your attention to the recent meeting between the patriarchs of the Oriental Orthodox churches which are members of the MECC convened in the Monastery of Anbâ Bishoy in Egypt. It has opened a new chapter in relations between us as an Oriental Orthodox church family and between us and the other Christian churches. The joint declaration which was released on March 11, 1998, said that we would have a common stand on questions of vital interest to our churches within the MECC, the World Council and all other ecumenical organizations. This means that future occasions of dialogue will be enriched. A similar meeting of the heads of the three Orthodox churches the Syrian, the Coptic and the Armenian was convened in the monastery of St. Ephraim the Syrian in the Convent of Sadnâyâ. After agreement had been reached on theological matters, the joint commission on dialogue energetically discussed pastoral and liturgical matters.

Finally, we must point to the progress achieved by all the churches of the two Orthodox families, on the one hand, and, on the other, the Catholic and Evangelical churches and international Christian groups. This gives us great confidence in what the Church has achieved through all the magnificent occasions of ecumenical dialogue.

Q. What is Your Holiness's hope for the future?

A. Before responding to this question, I want to point to the spirit of love and conciliation between the various religions and confessions in this country of Syria. Then I note that we look forward to greater cooperation between all the churches. We are fully prepared to do what we can in the cause of prospering ecumenical endeavor. Here we point to the theme of the 8th General Assembly of the WCC: "Turn to God, Rejoice in Hope." This slogan touches upon our presence, and bears with it a program for the future of our churches and their role in the ecumenical movement.

What say you Peter, fellow communicant of this fine Bishop of yours? :)

Daniel
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Post by Daniel »

I think the answer is very simple. If we discover that the constitution and rules of the World Council of Churches require a renunciation of Orthodox doctrine, if we discover that the Orthodox Church has no opportunity to testify to itself as one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, if we discover that the decision-making does not take into account our ecclesiological self-awareness, and if we discover that the majority opinion has an obligatory nature within the World Council, then we are most likely to withdraw.

Here are some quotes from the WCC’s Constitution: http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/who/con-e.html

Their Basis: The World Council of Churches is a fellowship of churches which confess the Lord Jesus Christ as God and Saviour according to the scriptures and therefore seek to fulfil together their common calling to the glory of the one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

PURPOSES AND FUNCTIONS:

The World Council of Churches is constituted by the churches to serve the one ecumenical movement.

The primary purpose of the fellowship of churches in the World Council of Churches is to call one another to visible unity in one faith and in one eucharistic fellowship, expressed in worship and common life in Christ, through witness and service to the world, and to advance towards that unity in order that the world may believe.

Here are some quotes from WCC’s Rules: http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/who/rules-e.html

RESPONSIBILITIES OF MEMBERSHIP: …commitment to the ecumenical movement as integral to the mission of the church.
…communicate the meaning of ecumenical commitment, to foster and encourage ecumenical relations and action at all levels of their church life and to pursue ecumenical fellowship locally, nationally, regionally and internationally;
…interpret both the broader ecumenical movement and the World Council of Church…

Here is a link to an article on the WCC website. It's called "Christian unity and the world" .
http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/what/faith/whatis-e.html

If I were to make a hastey judgment, I would say that one's very membership in the WCC is a denial of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. No matter how much those hierarchs who participate in the WCC want to say they can still remain Orthodox while participating in Ecumenical events, it just doesn't work. This group cares nothing of Christ and His Church. They don't care about Truth, who is Christ. The WCC seeming only cares about worldly esteem. In my time reading the WCC website I have had a hard time finding anything about finding truth, or what truth is. All it sounds like is unity based on compromise.

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Mor Ephrem
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Post by Mor Ephrem »

Peter is OCA, I thought, and not Syrian Orthodox...

bogoliubtsy
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Post by bogoliubtsy »

Yeah,
That's what I thought too. OCA, wishing he was ROCOR anyway :)

I think Orthodoxyordeath's point may have been since I commune usually at OCA parishes, and because the OCA is in communion with Antioch, and because Antioch may be giving communion to the Syrian Orthodox that I am in communion with the Syrian Church and therefore the Syrian Bishop is one of my Bishops. That whole "chain of communion" theory or something. Who knows...

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

The OCA communes Monophysites directly and believes and teaches just as the Antiochians do; or no?

...and because Antioch may be giving communion to the Syrian Orthodox...

No Peter, not "may", but are in fact. There are many documents published by the Antiochians themselves stating so, and enough witnesses even on this board to leave no doubt.

...am in communion with the Syrian Church and therefore the Syrian Bishop is one of my Bishops....

Exactly. And I think its about time you start becoming acquainted with your new friends. :)

...That whole "chain of communion" theory or something...

If you are Orthodox Peter, as you say you are, it is much more than a theory, is it not?

Can you say, "Hello your grace Mar Ignatious Zakkâ I"? :)

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