THE RUSSIAN IS THE SERB’S FRIEND FOREVER?

Information, news stories, and questions about True Traditionalist Orthodox Churches. This is the place to post encyclicals and any official public communications from True Orthodox jurisdictions.


Moderator: Mark Templet

Post Reply
Mark Templet
Member
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon 6 August 2007 2:59 pm
Location: Abita Springs, LA

Re: THE RUSSIAN IS THE SERB’S FRIEND FOREVER?

Post by Mark Templet »

I have always had a low opinion of the term autocephalos anyway. When applied to a Church it literally means that the Church is its own head; auto = self, cephalos = head. Christ is the Head of the Church; the only Head!

According to the Holy Fathers, the Church is defined as the bishop surrounded by his people or flock, within this context there is the fullness of the Church. All of the Holy Mysteries are present and the people lack nothing. Moreover, there is the absolute necessity for the bishops to rule a given locality (such as a nation) by its own synod of bishops each of whom represents and is the shepherd of his own diocese or an auxiliary of such. No bishop has jurisdiction over anything but his own diocese, however, he acts in unison with his brother bishops of the synod to guide the local Church. Certainly no bishop, whether he be a Patriarch or anything else, outside of the local synod has jurisdiction over that synod. Now, all of the synods in the whole world must hold to the same unified and Orthodox faith, which should be presented in a communal unity of each synod with the others.

This seems simple and I am sure no one would disagree, but the rub comes when we talk about missionary lands and large groups of people spread abroad. The Greeks brought Orthodoxy to the Slavs and eventually they were ready to do it on their own (autonomously). New Patriarchates were founded and the Church continued to grow. WARNING: EXAMPLE ONLY So the natural course of action would be like this: There are finally becomes some unity in the TOC in North America, and there are enough people, parishes, and monasteries to justify multiple diocese. The mother synods in Greece or Russia or wherever, finally must see that managing the North American affairs is too much for them and that the NAs are ready to have autonomy. The bishops of NA, no matter their national background, then form a NA synod and we are know as the North American True Orthodox Church (or something). At that point the mother Churches in the old country are done, and mustn't meddle in the affairs of the NA synod. WARNING: EXAMPLE ONLY

Now, that is my understanding of the way these things are supposed to work. And in my estimation we are several decades away from this. I am not sure how the Serbian situation fits this definition.

Fr. Mark Templet
ROAC

User avatar
Priest Siluan
Moderator
Posts: 1939
Joined: Wed 29 September 2004 7:53 pm
Faith: Russian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: RTOC
Location: Argentina
Contact:

Re: THE RUSSIAN IS THE SERB’S FRIEND FOREVER?

Post by Priest Siluan »

Ephrem wrote:
Priest Siluan wrote:

IMHO this Autocephaly is de jure just like the Russian Church today, but there are not a autocefalous Russian Church today.

Well, all the Russian groups act autonomously, though, based on the Ukaze No. 362. So it is not only de jure independence, but de facto, since they are actually capable of functioning that way.

the autonomy of Russians is temporal and based on Ukase Nº362, but their legal and old autocephaly only could be re-exerted after a All-Russian Council.

jgress
Moderator
Posts: 1382
Joined: Thu 4 March 2010 1:06 pm
Jurisdiction: GOC/HOTCA

Re: THE RUSSIAN IS THE SERB’S FRIEND FOREVER?

Post by jgress »

Remember, we are talking about Serbia. I can move some posts to a new thread about the Russian or American churches, if people want.

Mark Templet
Member
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon 6 August 2007 2:59 pm
Location: Abita Springs, LA

Re: THE RUSSIAN IS THE SERB’S FRIEND FOREVER?

Post by Mark Templet »

Remember, we are talking about Serbia. I can move some posts to a new thread about the Russian or American churches, if people want.

Thank you, but I am hoping that is not necessary, I believe we are using these as examples to apply to the Serbian situation. I know I am trying to do that.

Fr. Mark Templet
ROAC

jgress
Moderator
Posts: 1382
Joined: Thu 4 March 2010 1:06 pm
Jurisdiction: GOC/HOTCA

Re: THE RUSSIAN IS THE SERB’S FRIEND FOREVER?

Post by jgress »

Mark Templet wrote:

Remember, we are talking about Serbia. I can move some posts to a new thread about the Russian or American churches, if people want.

Thank you, but I am hoping that is not necessary, I believe we are using these as examples to apply to the Serbian situation. I know I am trying to do that.

Thank you, Father. I was just trying to be even-handed. :P

User avatar
Despotovac
Member
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed 20 February 2008 2:48 pm
Faith: True Orthodoxy
Jurisdiction: Serbian True Orthodox Church
Location: Serbia, Despotovac
Contact:

Re: THE RUSSIAN IS THE SERB’S FRIEND FOREVER?

Post by Despotovac »

Greek protectorate in Serbia or the regenerated
Serbian Church (TOC)?

Everything and anything is being written these days. Serbs are always in disagreement.
Some Serbs, alas, claim that Greek old-calendarists have made some new “Serbian church” that has nothing to do with Saint Savas Serbian Church, which is, can you imagine, “extinguished” by fall of Serbian hierarchy in heresy of ecumenism. That newly-formed “Serbian church” in fact does not exist for in the documents of the Holy Synod of Greek TOC TOC Serbia is written down as church administrative territory of Greek exarchate of Eastern and Western Europe. Apologists of Serbia as unformed Greek protectorate state that we clerics and faithful are in absolute dependence of Greek bishops since we do not have any connections with historical Serbian Local St. Savas Orthodox Church. In this way, faithful people are offended and intimidated and from this it is well shown how harmful this, temporary episcopacy of Greek bishops, was for Serbia.
What can I say, except that I do not consider myself belonging and serving some, by Greek bishops newly-formed “Serbian church” which has nothing to do with Historical St. Savas Serbian Church and which doesnt even exist for Greek TOC hierarchy. We all were and are the faithful of St.Savas Serbian Church whose hierarchy has fallen to apostasy of sergianism and heresy of ecumenism. When I first broke communion with ecumenist hierarchy and asked help from Greek old-calendarists, that act was never meant like negation of Historical Serbian Church nor formation of some new geographical church-Greek protectorate in Serbia. The assertion that Serbian Church has disappeared and that it has to be restored from the beginning like Greek mission among Aborigines or African tribes is totally absurd. The fall of hierarchy in Serbia is only approximately 50 years long, there are still numerous faithful in Serbia who were baptized and communed while the church was true and which have never communed with heretics. There are numerous clerics , monastic’s and lay people in the official church who are anti-ecumenists and traditionalists and who are very close to accept the True Orthodoxy, but for them such a position of Greek protectorate would be absolutely unacceptable, which will lead them away from True Orthodoxy.
Assertions like this are not new, the Parish of Smederevo has spread such information’s for several years now. It is interesting that even the Greeks themselves,( at least not officially and openly)do not support such assertions, but Serbs, for who-knows-what reason made up this church Frankenstein whom they fanatically defend and present as only canonically healthy option for salvation of Serbian people. For this purpose the intimidation by schism is used with explanation that the canonical release is not asked from Greek bishops for imagined transfer from Greek to Russian TO church. What kind of schism can be when Serbian priests ask help from canonical Russian TOC? What canonical release is in question and where are the Serbian priests going to and why ask canonical release from Greek bishops? Serbian priests were ordained by Greek TOC as help of Greek Church to sister- Church in Serbia and are not clerics of Greek Church, this is clear and nobody ever disputed this. They were ordained for Serbia, they live in Serbia and serve needs of Serbian Church. They do not transfer to another Church, they stay in their Serbian Church. So, Serbian priests do not leave Greek Church because they were not ordained for Greek Church and they are not transferring to Russian Church, as some try to picture. The RTOC doesn
t agree on this. It only wants to help Serbian Church to stand firmly on its own feet. It is true, though that we, Serbian priests are temporarily under administrative rule of Holy Synod of Greek TOC, but only until Serbia receives its own bishop. Receiving a canonical True Orthodox bishop is of life and death importance for Serbian Church and since Greek Synod was not interested to help us in this way, we turned to Russian Church for help.
As we had said before, some malicious rumors say this act is creating a schism. There is an answer to the fear of schism-as a sin, the apologists of Greek protectorate in Serbia stress, that not even the blood of martyrdom can clean-I want to remind them of history of Greek old-calendarists whose history is history of schisms. Even todays Archbishop became a bishop overnight when bishops Kalist and Antony made an exemplary schism with their Orthodox First-hierarch Archbishop Avksentie. Giving this as an example, I do not deny the canonicity of Greek TOC or its episcopate, but am implying how thorny their path was, from numerous canonically questionable situations which are today accepted as justified and valid, to now-days stability. Apologists of Greek protectorate do not mention these situations, but require perfect actions from Serbs. They need this Schism to justify Greek faceless exarchate on canonical territory of Serbia and to purge themselves and their own Serbian Church which is fighting for our Historical St. Savas Serbian Church. A schism to whom? A possibility to exit the administrative rule of Greek Synod and to accept unconditional help of Russian church is not and cannot be a schism. As we do not agree on situation in Serbia imposed by Greeks and the apologists of Greek protectorate and as clerics and faithful of the Historical Serbian St. Savas Church we have absolute right to self-determination in light of continuous struggle for revival of truly Orthodox Church of Serbia. To conclude at the end, we do not dispute the right of any of those who wish to belong to that, by Greeks newly founded “Serbian church” which we have seen is no Serbian church but Greek exarchate of Easter and Western Europe, to remain in it and the time shall show the canonicity of that option. But, moral responsibility before Serbian people and Heavenly Serbia of people who display and defend such ideas, will be great.

Hieromonk Acacius

ПРАВОСЛАВЉЕ ИЛИ СМРТ!

User avatar
Priest Siluan
Moderator
Posts: 1939
Joined: Wed 29 September 2004 7:53 pm
Faith: Russian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: RTOC
Location: Argentina
Contact:

Re: THE RUSSIAN IS THE SERB’S FRIEND FOREVER?

Post by Priest Siluan »

I find very right the Father Akakije`s clarification about this important question for the the true and canonical Serbian Orthodox Church, and it is very interesting that some people in GOC are forgetting their own story and their own past.

Post Reply