Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

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Hieromonk Ambrose
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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Hieromonk Ambrose »

Suaiden wrote:

My word, once the Pinkos elevated you,

Father, Please think about stopping the silly insults. You're throwing stones out of a greenhouse. Metropolitan Evloghios (Klaus Hessler) of the Synod of Milan was ordained a priest by the "Pinkos". He continued as a loyal servant of the Soviet Church for 17 years! There are photos of him on the Web with his "mentor" the notorious Metropolitan Nikodim of Leningrad, the same as died at the feet of the pope. Father Evloghios was so well thought of by the Soviets that they elevated him to an Archimandrite (something every unusual for them to do with a non-Russian in those Soviet decades but it shows the esteem that the Communists held him in.)

Ephrem
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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Ephrem »

This is a very sorry spectacle.

I propose that this end immediately. Fr. Joseph, God be with you. Bless those who slander you and the Lord, seeing your humility, will exalt you from the Throne of Judgement. Pray for me and for others here that God grant discernment and peace of mind.
I think that for all the True Orthodox who examine this discussion, it will be clear enough that those who are flinging accusations are not doing so out of love for truth, but as enemies of the True Church.
You have said, Father Joseph, that your Synod will handle this and announce its decision after appropriate deliberation and discernment on the matter. We trust that this is so, and that if the response on their part is unsatisfactory that the True Christians, as always, will do as the Lord commands, and flee. There is no need to despair, but much cause to rejoice, for the Lord desireth not the death of a sinner, but is patient with us!

Forgive me if I offend anyone, and pray for me all of you.

Ephrem Cummings, Subdeacon
ROAC

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Suaidan
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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Suaidan »

priest_Steven wrote:

Me: Dear Father Joseph the issue here - and it continues to be as far as I am concerned - the fact that you are covering up ecumenism and departures within TOC, especially your own Milan who has a history of it! Now this latest bit of info - and how you are dealing with it (complete with your predictions of future departures) - is also NOT covered. Unless of course you decide to separate from Milan. Then I bet you will get ramped up in high gear!!

More conjecture about your imaginary schism. Not complaining to the moderators yet, but you are definitely starting to go places you shouldn't. It sets a bad precedent, allowing World Orthodox to make up what's happening in the True Orthodox Churches.

I mean why endlessly go on and on about the so-called propaganda of your opponents when you admit to doing the same thing?

Me go on and on? I answered Jonathan's question, stating that Fr Ambrose and his cronies are going everywhere to try to force answers out of my Synod I won't give. Then they showed up. Get something straight. I will defend myself here.

Also, don't get so bent out of shape when the ecumenism of your Milan synod is being discussed openly. After all you have a 24-7 site going full court press about your "opponents" and admit to ignoring certain TOC news at the request of certain hierarchs. In a word, don't get your knickers in a twist over a valid story NFTU refuses to cover!

Bent out of shape? It's a five year old letter. Let's see what's happened since then with ROCOR-MP: they've admitted they can do nothing about the MP's ecumenism, they partook in the deposition of an MP hierarch calling for the MP to leave the WCC, and Bp Kirill met with the Archbishop of Canterbury. And all you still have is a 5-year old letter that I had never seen till October, the main issue in it being a level of formal recognition of bodies you are now in communion with.

Oh, yes, let's talk about my ecumenism.

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by priest_Steven »

Fr. Joseph I would like your confirmations or rebuttals to this list from I believe one of your own that has been floating around the net for some time.

Milan's quest to be accepted into "world orthodoxy":

  1. Church of Constantinople

Milan's application to Constantinople occurred some years ago now.
Constantinople did a check on all of Milan's financial holdings, properties,
value of properties, and so forth. One bishop within that jurisdiction said
that the EP found insufficient "collateral" to make Milan of any interest to
them. During the negotiations one bishop, named Nektarios, went over to the
EP unilaterally. I don't know what became of him after that. If I recall,
the Vatican was very keen in protesting to the Phanar not to receive the
Milan Synod, but I don't think this protest was pivotal in the Phanar's
decision. After the negotiations fell through, Milan issued a strong
denunciation of the EP.

  1. Church of Russia

Milan's application to the Moscow Patriarchate occurred before that to
Constantinople since Milan preferred old-calendar jurisdictions. Many in the
MP were favourable but also many were unfavourable. Moscow finally offered
to receive the Milan bishops in rank, but not as ruling bishops. This was
found unacceptable to the Milan bishops. After these negotiations fell
through, one Milan bishop, Marco of Genoa, published a derisive denunciation
of the MP.

  1. Church of Bulgaria

These negotiations were among the most promising. The reception of the Milan
Synod as an autonomous or semi-autonomous metropolia under Sofia was
actually put on the agenda of the great sobor of the Bulgarian Church. The
Bulgarians were somewhat bewildered by the number of bishops Milan had per
capita, since the Bulgarian Church has extremely few bishops per capita.
However, the agenda item was placed at about item #100 (if I recall), near
the end of items, and so it was never brought up at that sobor, time
failing. Thus things fell through and Milan turned to other jurisdictions.

  1. Church of Romania

These negotiations seemed fairly promising, and friendly "on-the-ground"
contacts were established with actual bishops and their faithful in Romania.
As a result, a Romanian convent sewed some very beautiful vestments for
Metr. Evloghios, and the presence of many Romanians in Milan Synod parishes
must have been something of interest to the Romanian Patriarchate.
Friendships were made. However, in the end nothing came of these
negotiations. Some of their bishops were very much in favour, some were very
much not in favour. I can't recall exactly why these ones failed. I know the
calendar issue was
discussed, Milan people being very keen to keep the old calendar, and I
think this hurdle was cleared. I don't remember what was the chief sticking
point, prob. autonomy.

  1. Church of Serbia

These were very promising negotiations. There was a Bp. Luke [Serbian Bishop
of France] who was keenly interested in making a deal whereby, in one
stroke, both the Milan people and the people who were ECOF and were without
sponsorship, could together be received under the Serbian patriarchate, and
the more traditional Western rite people of Milan could have some oversight
over the WR people of France whose liturgical customs were more problematic.
Some of the Serbian bishops were enthusiastic about this, incl. the nephew
of St. Nikolai Velimirovich, a bishop John Velimirovitch. The other Serbian
bishops weren't as keen to make a bold move in France and in Milan, and the
Milan WR people actually
begged off being joined in any relationship to the ECOF people, since their
approaches to liturgy were so very different (also the calendar was a big
issue for the Milan people). In the end everything fell through entirely,
prob. over autonomy.

  1. Church of Georgia

These were the most promising negotiations of all. Georgia had had internal
problems with Greek Old Calendarist entry into their geographic boundaries.
Some Georgian negotiators felt that by declaring Milan to be the authentic
descendant of Auxentios, while taking it under their wing, they could
prevent further 'poaching' by other GOC-ists. The more traditional-minded
Milan bishops were very pleased that Georgia had withdrawn from the WCC, an
organisation they abhorred, and negotiations went so far that
the Milan bishops actually had plane tickets to travel to Tbilisi and be
received under the Patriarchate. At the last minute the Phanar discovered
these plans, they made rather severe threats of censure against Georgia
should it receive Milan, and as a result the Georgian Church suddenly
withdrew its offer.

  1. Church of Antioch

We should also not forget the Milan Synod's exploration of being received by
the Antiochian Patriarchate. The patriarchal representative who spoke to
Metr. Evloghios said that he knew the Milan Synod were pious Orthodox
Christians, but due to the fact that the Patriarchates counted Milan in the
number of "Slavic" or "Russian" churches culturally, and because the
Antiochian Patriarchate had a delicate role in stabilising problematic
relations between the Constantinople and Moscow Patriarchates, it would not
be possible for the Antiochian Patriarchate to assist the Milan Synod by
receiving them into their communion.

  1. Syriac Orthodox Church (Monophysite) - Fr. Steven comment: See this this thread!
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Suaidan
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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Suaidan »

Ephrem wrote:

This is a very sorry spectacle.

I propose that this end immediately. Fr. Joseph, God be with you. Bless those who slander you and the Lord, seeing your humility, will exalt you from the Throne of Judgement. Pray for me and for others here that God grant discernment and peace of mind.
I think that for all the True Orthodox who examine this discussion, it will be clear enough that those who are flinging accusations are not doing so out of love for truth, but as enemies of the True Church.
You have said, Father Joseph, that your Synod will handle this and announce its decision after appropriate deliberation and discernment on the matter. We trust that this is so, and that if the response on their part is unsatisfactory that the True Christians, as always, will do as the Lord commands, and flee. There is no need to despair, but much cause to rejoice, for the Lord desireth not the death of a sinner, but is patient with us!

Forgive me if I offend anyone, and pray for me all of you.

Thank you, Ephrem. I appreciate it. This hasn't been an easy time for us. I am hopeful though, and I think good will come out of it. You are demonstrating a Christian charity that, when these ecumenists are exposed, they cannot pretend to copy. This is why these men are so desperate they joined the Cafe just to attack. They don't know what is going to happen (most of their moles--yes they had moles-- are out or have left) and now they are confused, because they have no idea what's coming.

But I say this: all happens according to the Lord's Will. Two men cannot stop it. I pray constantly for the peace and the unity of all the True Orthodox Christians, and you are in my prayers. I ask you do the same for me.

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by Suaidan »

priest_Steven wrote:

Fr. Joseph I would like your confirmations or rebuttals to this list from I believe one of your own that has been floating around the net for some time.

I did not author this. Father Aidan of the MP did. And then there were three.

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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Re: Metropolitan Evloghios of Milan

Post by priest_Steven »

Dear Father that you would defend yourself here is the point of having this discussion! You should address these items in a venue which bring you comfort and support.

You said: Bent out of shape? It's a five year old letter.

Me: Again, it is the effect and your actions NOW concerning the same letter! This is the NEWS. Your own comments at the beginning of this tread show the seriousness of this. The words of your own hierodeacon posted on the first page of this thread in response to the five year old letter are quite pointed.

  • Fr. S
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