Fasting = one meal per day?

[timothyvargas]

Timothy, fasting is not a weapon, it's a tool for ourselves. It's a spiritual exercise which we require just like athletes that use their exercise programs to strengthen their abilities. The Holy Cross, love and prayer are the weapons against the evil one. Of course, all of this is tied up with faith.

Thank you Joasia for giving your opinion. Ofcourse fasting is a spiritual/physical exercise as the fathers teach, but the fathers also teach it is a weapon, and gives it the attributes of such. I for one do not put one father against the other, but recognize the reality that there are many ways to describe fasting with its benefit. Just one example out of the hundreds: "He (our Saviour) taught us, feeble as we are, that we should fight against the demons with humility, fasting, prayer and watchfulness...He began His spiritual warfare by fasting..." (St. Hesychios the Priest; pg.164, The Philokalia, vol.1), etc., etc., etc.. So you see, not only is fasting a weapon, but humility, prayer, watchfulness and MANY, many others.

[Maria]

Timothy, fasting is not a weapon, it's a tool for ourselves. It's a spiritual exercise which we require just like athletes that use their exercise programs to strengthen their abilities. The Holy Cross, love and prayer are the weapons against the evil one. Of course, all of this is tied up with faith.

Thank you Joasia for giving your opinion. Ofcourse fasting is a spiritual/physical exercise as the fathers teach, but the fathers also teach it is a weapon, and gives it the attributes of such. I for one do not put one father against the other, but recognize the reality that there are many ways to describe fasting with its benefit. Just one example out of the hundreds: "He (our Saviour) taught us, feeble as we are, that we should fight against the demons with humility, fasting, prayer and watchfulness...He began His spiritual warfare by fasting..." (St. Hesychios the Priest; pg.164, The Philokalia, vol.1), etc., etc., etc.. So you see, not only is fasting a weapon, but humility, prayer, watchfulness and MANY, many others.

And Spiritual Warfare needs all the weapons we can muster. Prayer (including the Holy Mysteries) and fasting are key.

[joasia]

Timothy, fasting is not a weapon, it's a tool for ourselves. It's a spiritual exercise which we require just like athletes that use their exercise programs to strengthen their abilities. The Holy Cross, love and prayer are the weapons against the evil one. Of course, all of this is tied up with faith.

Thank you Joasia for giving your opinion. Of course fasting is a spiritual/physical exercise as the fathers teach, but the fathers also teach it is a weapon, and gives it the attributes of such. I for one do not put one father against the other, but recognize the reality that there are many ways to describe fasting with its benefit. Just one example out of the hundreds: "He (our Saviour) taught us, feeble as we are, that we should fight against the demons with humility, fasting, prayer and watchfulness...He began His spiritual warfare by fasting..." (St. Hesychios the Priest; pg.164, The Philokalia, vol.1), etc., etc., etc.. So you see, not only is fasting a weapon, but humility, prayer, watchfulness and MANY, many others.

Yes Timothy, I certainly see what you are saying. I guess I was looking at it from the view if fasting was, alone, was considered a weapon. Christ said that only fasting and prayer could overcome certain demons. But, what stood out to me is that prayer was involved and fasting was more the tool of a weapon (prayer). But, as you say, this is my opinion. It's the teachings I've learned from the holy fathers. And, I agree, the holy fathers do explain so many spiritual teachings that if put all together will give us the whole picture.

So to conclude, what I've learned from the holy fathers' writings is that the battle is on a spiritual level which includes humility, prayer, watchfulness, love and fasting is obviously a physical aspect, from what we are talking about here.

[Jean-Serge]

I see this thread a bit late. Well, the normative fast is indeed one meal a day after 3 PM as the sources mentioned here states it. Since it is normative, nobody should ask a permission from his spiritual father (high word to talk in fact about the priest who confesses you or that who knows you best) to fast in this way, just as nobody asks permission to fast from meat and dairy, it is the norm.

The fact is that most persons do not know this rule because simply they were not taught about it. I discovered it myself by accident and noticed it was genuine and general. Is that rule hard, impossible to follow physically? According to Saint Gergory Palamas no, and he's right, for several reasons.

If you have one meal a day at noon, you'll be hungry in the evening, but if you have it at 3 PM, you won't in fact. So the hour of 3 PM looks physically good, it is by the way, the hour of lunch in Spain. Before, nothing forbids you from drinking (juice if you need energy because they contain sugar, water etc); since it is not a total abstention of water. Practically speaking, a solution would be those working, eating something at work at 3PM like fruits and so on (bananas work very well), and finish your meal at home when you are back. From experience of several persons, it is really feasible, physically speaking.

[Maria]

I see this thread a bit late. Well, the normative fast is indeed one meal a day after 3 PM as the sources mentioned here states it. Since it is normative, nobody should ask a permission from his spiritual father (high word to talk in fact about the priest who confesses you or that who knows you best) to fast in this way, just as nobody asks permission to fast from meat and dairy, it is the norm.

The fact is that most persons do not know this rule because simply they were not taught about it. I discovered it myself by accident and noticed it was genuine and general. Is that rule hard, impossible to follow physically? According to Saint Gergory Palamas no, and he's right, for several reasons.

If you have one meal a day at noon, you'll be hungry in the evening, but if you have it at 3 PM, you won't in fact. So the hour of 3 PM looks physically good, it is by the way, the hour of lunch in Spain. Before, nothing forbids you from drinking (juice if you need energy because they contain sugar, water etc); since it is not a total abstention of water. Practically speaking, a solution would be those working, eating something at work at 3PM like fruits and so on (bananas work very well), and finish your meal at home when you are back. From experience of several persons, it is really feasible, physically speaking.

Yes, the one-meal-a-day may be normative during fasting seasons, but with so many men and women suffering from pre-diabetes and/or hypoglycemia, drinking fruit juice or eating fruit, even one banana, can lead to a dangerous rise and then a dangerous drop in blood sugar (reactive hypoglycemia). Fruits have been selectively bred for sweetness, so our modern fruits contain much more fructose than in years past. Thus, if someone were to experience sudden sweating, blurry vision, weakness and/or nausea about an hour or two after eating fruit, then one should seek medical help and the advice of one's spiritual father. By the way, St. Seraphim of Sarov told his spiritual daughters in the convent to put a piece of blessed bread under their pillows at night should they awake feeling ill during the night and need nourishment.

[jgress]

I'm not sure I agree about the easiness. I tried fasting until 3 and it was very hard to get any work done since I was so distracted by hunger. I also couldn't hide it from anyone since my stomach was gurgling so loudly! Of course, I was not used to it, but I think this is probably why most people don't keep to the one meal a day rule, since they need the energy from food to work (some drinks give you energy, but they don't satisfy hunger in the way solid food does). Of course, it's commendable if you are able to function normally in your work and everyday life while keeping the fasts strictly, but if it's interfering in your ability to carry out your basic responsibilities you should think about adopting a laxer practice.

In principle, you don't need explicit permission to keep the Church's general rule, but when the written rules themselves are no longer generally kept, I think you should pay attention to what is the actual normative practice in your church and ask your spiritual father for permission to deviate from that. It's a particular problem among converts who learn about Orthodoxy from books, since it gives them a false or incomplete picture of how Orthodoxy is actually lived and practiced. Remember that Tradition is orally transmitted first of all.

Also, different books say different things about what the "correct" practice is in the first place, which is another reason not to rely on books too much.

[Jean-Serge]

The problem is that a current practice might be highly decadent, like for example at the time of the Kollyvades the very unfrequent communion, that had become the norm.