OBAMA, SATAN'S MESSIAH??

[nyc_xenia]

Code: Select all

    I was reviewing Archbishop Averky's treatise on the [i]Apocalypse [/i]today, (published by St. Herman's Press in the 1980s with a forward by blessed Father Seraphim Rose) and he makes the point that it is not God's will to reveal definitive details to us about the identity of the Antichrist.  [/quote]

Definitive details? Like what? His first and last name or perhaps his email address?

For crying out loud. The Lord in His mercy and kindness has given us the most important detail about the impostor which He could have given us. He has granted us to know his proper "title" through the number "666".

What else do we really need to "identify" the Antichrist? How thick skinned can we be? By the number "666", we have the man pegged, we have his proper title...the "King of Israel". Through this we have been revealed that the "Kingdom" of Israel will have no king, until the day of the deceivers coronation.

I mean, believe as you wish, but can you quote any of the Holy Fathers prophecies about the Antichrist which could back your belief?

Please, do not back an unfounded idea that the Antichrist will be a US president by telling us that, "God will not reveal his identity to us". Your lack of "verification" is nothing more than an open door for private interpretation.

Most of the writings about the Antichrist say that not only is he from the tribe of Dan, but that he will rise up out of Israel.

If you believe that it is possible, back your interpretations through the fathers. Prove through their writings alone that the Antichrist was prophesied to come out of America or some "new land".

[Cyprian]

St. Hippolytus of Rome (3rd cent.)

For in every respect that deceiver seeks to make himself appear like the Son of God. Christ is a lion, and Antichrist is a lion. Christ is King of things celestial and things terrestrial, and Antichrist will be king upon earth. The Saviour was manifested as a lamb; and he, too, will appear as a lamb, while he is a wolf within. The Saviour was circumcised, and he in like manner will appear in circumcision. The Saviour sent the apostles unto all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. Christ gathered together the dispersed sheep, and he in like manner will gather together the dispersed people of the Hebrews. Christ gave to those who believed on Him the honourable and life-giving cross, and he in like manner will give his own sign. Christ appeared in the form of man, and he in like manner will come forth in the form of man. Christ arose from among the Hebrews, and he will spring from among the Jews. Christ displayed His flesh like a temple, and raised it up on the third day; and he too will raise up again the temple of stone in Jerusalem. And these deceits fabricated by him will become quite intelligible to those who listen to us attentively, from what shall be set forth next in order.

[and...]

Now, as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of His royalty and glory, in the same way have the Scriptures also aforetime spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Saviour was manifested as a lamb; so he too, in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Saviour came into the World in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Saviour gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him, and he will give one like manner. The Saviour appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Saviour raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem. And his seductive arts we shall exhibit in what follows. But for the present let us turn to the question in hand.

[Pravoslavnik]

Xenia,

Code: Select all

 Have you read anything written on this thread?  Please take a moment to actually read what is written before criticizing what others have written.  For example, I have mentioned prophecies and accounts from the Fathers, such as St. John of San Francisco and the Staretz Lavrenti of Chernigov.

   Where does it say in the scriptures or the writings of the Fathers that the Antichrist will be born in Israel?  Yes, as we have often said here, he will be a descendant of the tribe of Dan, but that does not mean he will be born in [i]Israel[/i], per se.  Chapter 13 of Revelation describes the Antichrist as arising "from the sea," though this may be entirely symbolic.  Is "the sea" here a reference to a body of water or to the "sea" of humanity?  Secondly, where do you find your translation of "666" as "King of Israel?"  I would like to know.

[nyc_xenia]

Xenia,

Code: Select all

 Have you read anything written on this thread?  [/quote]

Yep, I sure did.

Where does it say in the scriptures or the writings of the Fathers that the Antichrist will be born in Israel?

You didn't read what I posted.

Yes, as we have often said here, he will be a descendant of the tribe of Dan, but that does not mean he will be born in Israel, per se. Chapter 13 of Revelation describes the Antichrist as arising "from the sea," though this may be entirely symbolic. Is "the sea" here a reference to a body of water or to the "sea" of humanity?

He will be born in the Middle East. (Post on page 3 of thread, I think.)

Secondly, where do you find your translation of "666" as "King of Israel?" I would like to know.

LOL, sure, it's in one of my posts above. I even submitted a photo link for visual reference.

[nyc_xenia]

Here's one more:

"Antichrist will be born of a harlot--a Jewess from the twelfth tribe "of debauchery"."

Schema-Archimandrite Lavrenty

[Cyprian]

St. Hippolytus of Rome

Refutation of All Heresies
Book IX, Chapter XXV

Still all parties alike expect Messiah, inasmuch as the Law certainly, and the prophets, preached beforehand that He was about to be present on earth. Inasmuch, however, as the Jews were not cognizant of the period of His advent, there remains the supposition that the declarations (of Scripture) concerning His coming have not been fulfilled. And so it is, that up to this day they continue in anticipation of the future coming of the Christ,--from the fact of their not discerning Him when He was present in the world. And (yet there can be little doubt but) that, on beholding the signs of the times of His having been already amongst us, the Jews are troubled; and that they are ashamed to confess that He has come, since they have with their own hands put Him to death, because they were stung with indignation in being convicted by Himself of not having obeyed the laws. And they affirm that He who was thus sent forth by God is not this Christ (whom they are looking for); but they confess that another Messiah will come, who as yet has no existence; and that he will usher in some of the signs which the law and the prophets have shown beforehand, whereas, regarding the rest (of these indications), they suppose that they have fallen into error. For they say that his generation will be from the stock of David, but not from a virgin and the Holy Spirit, but from a woman and a man, according as it is a rule for all to be procreated from seed. And they allege that this Messiah will be King over them,--a warlike and powerful individual, who, after having gathered together the entire people of the Jews, and having done battle with all the nations, will restore for them Jerusalem the royal city. And into this city He will collect together the entire Hebrew race, and bring it back once more into the ancient customs, that it may fulfil the regal and sacerdotal functions, and dwell in confidence for periods of time of sufficient duration. After this repose, it is their opinion that war would next be waged against them after being thus congregated; that in this conflict Christ would fall by the edge of the sword; and that, after no long time, would next succeed the termination and conflagration of the universe; and that in this way their opinions concerning the resurrection would receive completion, and a recompense be rendered to each man according to his works.

[Lenexa]

Joanna,

Code: Select all

  Here is your Euphrosynos Cafe post of January 20, 2008 (in red) in which you stated that Obama did not fit the Antichrist's profile of a charismatic leader who would come to world power quickly and have the authority to resolve a world crisis.  (It is posted on the Euphrosynos thread entitled, "Is Barack Obama the Antichrist?" Do you still believe now what you wrote then; that Obama lacks charisma, and would not have the power as the U.S. President to resolve a major world crisis?  (italics mine)  If the U.S. President lacked such power, who wouldn't?

There's three problems with this idea:

1. His origin of birth; the Antichrist will be born in the Middle East.

The following is an excerpt from the Letter on the Origin and Time of the Antichrist, written approx. 950 by a Benedictine monk Adso of Montier-En-Der. The treatise were written at the request of Queen Gerbera of France for clarification on the details of the rise and life of the Antichrist.

"You have heard how he is to be born; now hear the place where he will be born. Just as Our Lord and Redeemer foresaw Bethlehem for himself as the place to assume humanity and to be born for us, so too the devil knew a place fit for that lost man who is called Antichrist, a place from which the root of all evil (1 Tim. 6:10) ought to come, namely, the city of Babylon. Antichrist will be born in that city, which once was a celebrated and glorious pagan center and the capital of the Persian Empire. It says that he will be brought up and protected in the cities of Bethsaida and Corozain, the cities that the Lord reproaches in the Gospel when he says, "Woe to you, Bethsaida, woe to you Corozain!" (Matt. 11.21). The Antichrist will have magicians, enchanters, diviners, and wizards who at the devil's bidding will rear him and instruct him in every evil, error, and wicked art. Evil spirits will be his leaders, his constant associates, and inseparable companions. Then he will come to Jerusalem and with various tortures will slay all the Christians he cannot convert to his cause. He will erect his throne in the Holy Temple, for the Temple that Solomon built to God that had been destroyed he will raise up to its former state. He will circumcise himself and will pretend that he is the son of Almighty God."

2. The Antichrist will be crowned King of Israel.
Excerpt from: The Prophetic Gift.

"Antichrist will be born of a harlot--a Jewess from the twelfth tribe "of debauchery". While still a youth he will be very capable and smart, especially after he, as a boy of twelve, walking with his mother in the garden, meets satan, who will come from the very depths and enter into him. The boy will shudder with fright, but satan will say: 'Do not be afraid, I will help you.' And this boy will mature into Antichrist in human form. At his coronation, when the Symbol of Faith is read, he will not allow it to be read correctly; where the words describe Jesus Christ as the Son of God, he will renounce this and acknowledge only himself. And then the Patriarch will exclaim that this is Antichrist, and for this he will be killed..."
_Schema-Archimandrite Lavrenty (Laurence) of the Chernigov-Trinity Convent.

Excerpt from: Antichrist by Archpriest Boris Molchanoff

"Venerable Father: In the most recent issue of Revue Biblique, on page 298, the Reverend Fr. Semeria mentions the opinion of G. Gode, which identifies the Beast of the Apocalypse as "Jewish might reborn at the end of time." Observing the growing power of Judaism, it must be acknowledged that this opinion finds confirmation in modern history. If so, Antichrist will be a Jewish king.

"St. John discloses to us that the "number of his name... is six hundred threescore six (666) [Rev 13:17-18], and invites us to decipher the number of the Beast." If this means that the name of Antichrist can be deduced therefrom, and if this deduction is possible before his coming, then it is highly unlikely that St. John had [Antichrist's] proper name in mind. We inevitably arrive at conclusions which are quite arbitrary when we produce results by utilizing proper names.

"Since the Antichrist shall come under the guise of the messiah, he shall indubitably assume the title "King of the Jews"; doubtless he shall be called king chiefly in Israel. "

http://bp0.blogger.com/_56VYI0eq6YI/RuB ... 2Bcopy.jpg

3. He will be accepted as the "Messiah" by the Jews.

Excerpt From: A Sermon ascribed to St. Ephraem or to St. Isidore. Published as:"A Sermon by Pseudo-Ephraem"

"But when the time of the abomination of his desolation begins to approach, having been made legal, he takes the empire, and, just as it is said in the Psalm:-They have been made for the undertaking for the sons of Loth, the Moabites and the Ammanites shall meet him first as their king. Therefore, when he receives the kingdom, he orders the temple of God to be rebuilt for himself, which is in Jerusalem; who, after coming into it, he shall sit as God and order that he be adored by all nations, since he is carnal and filthy and mixed with worthless spirit and flesh. Then that eloquence shall be fulfilled of Daniel the prophet:-And he shall not know the God of their fathers, and he shall not know the desires of women. Because the very wicked serpent shall direct every worship to himself. Because he shall put forth an edict so that people may be circumcised according to the rite of the old law. Then the Jews shall congratulate him, because he gave them again the practice of the first covenant; then all people from everywhere shall flock together to him at the city of Jerusalem, and the holy city shall be trampled on by the nations for forty-two months, just as the holy apostle says in the Apocalypse, which become three and a half years, 1,260 days."

Excellent Post Xenia!
However I will just mention, not against you at all! that the quote by Benedictine monk Fr. Adso was once also used to justify the belief that Saddam Hussein was the Antichrist! Looks like that was wrong! Thanks be to God!