Padre Pio

[Suaidan]

Perhaps the incorruption is not a sign of sanctity altogether, but a product of asceticism?

Just a thought.

I disagree with you Pravoslavnik.

What I find absolutely amazing about the strange phenomenon of stigmata is that I have never heard it questioned from a Roman Catholic. Most Roman Catholics just accept it is a supernatural sign from God. There is no effort whatsoever to see perhaps it is from the other side. The evil one can make false miracles that appear to be good all the time. Just what is the spiritual message that stigmata teaches?

That sinful man or woman is seen to be sharing the Passion of Christ literally! That a man or woman can actually compare themselves to the Son of God, the Redeemer and come out somewhat equal!
By having the hands, head, or eyes bleeding on their own to denote holiness is not only bizarre but anti-christian. At one point the stigmatized Francis of Assisi was preaching to birds the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. That translates to any grounded Orthodox Christian as spiritual delusion or plani / prelest. Pio must of been suffering from the same thing.

Please read this to correct any misunderstandings you may have about this subject.

http://www.russian-inok.org/page.php?pa ... month=0703

[Pravoslavnik]

I do not know the answer here, but what do we make of St. Paul's epistle in which he wrote that he (Paul) now "bore on his body the marks of the Lord?" I believe that the Apostle to the Gentiles wrote this in the context of saying that it was not he, himself, but Christ God who now lived within his own body. Was St. Paul referring to some sort of stigmata?

[GOCPriestMark]

Galations 6:17 from St. John Chrysostom:

“For I bear branded on my body the marks of Jesus.”

"He says not, “I have,” but, “I bear,” like a man priding himself on trophies and royal ensigns. Although on a second thought it seems a disgrace, yet does this man vaunt of his wounds, and like military standard-bearers, so does he exult in bearing about these wounds. And why does he say this? “More clearly by those wounds than by any argument, than by any language, do I vindicate myself,” says he. For these wounds utter a voice louder than a trumpet against my opponents, and against those who say that I play the hypocrite in my teaching, and speak what may please men. For no one who saw a soldier retiring from the battle bathed in blood and with a thousand wounds, would dare to accuse him of cowardice and treachery, seeing that he bears on his body the proofs of his valor, and so ought ye, he says, to judge of me. And if any one desire to hear my defence, and to learn my sentiments, let him consider my wounds, which afford a stronger proof than these words and letters. At the outset of his Epistle he evinced his sincerity by the suddenness of his conversion, at its close he proves it by the perils which attended his conversion. That it might not be objected that he had changed his course with upright intentions, but that he had not continued in the same purpose, he produces his trials, his dangers, his stripes as witnesses that he had so continued."

[Incognito1583]

I do not know the answer here, but what do we make of St. Paul's epistle in which he wrote that he (Paul) now "bore on his body the marks of the Lord?" I believe that the Apostle to the Gentiles wrote this in the context of saying that it was not he, himself, but Christ God who now lived within his own body. Was St. Paul referring to some sort of stigmata?

No, this is a case of reading into the text what a person wants to see. Saint Paul could just have easily be referring to the sign of the cross that we Orthodox make daily on our bodies. He could also have been referring to wound marks that he received from his many persecutions. The marks of the Lord could represent the sufferings he received in the body for the Lord.

I read that when Pio allegedly comes around people, they sometimes smell the odor of a cigar. A cigar? The Holy Spirit would never use a cigar stench to represent His presense and the presence of a saint. This is completely of the devil. True saints have myrh or another pleasant fragrance. Not the odor of something that harms the body like cigar smoke.

[Incognito1583]

And saint Paul could have been referring to something that we don't even have the vocabulary or reference point to understand today. Some things like the gift of tongues, had a short life span. But the devil likes to immitate the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

[Pravoslavnik]

Good point, Incognito, and we all know how significantly St. Paul was influenced by the Evil One after his trip to Damascus... When he said that he "bore on his body the marks (stigmata) of the Lord," it must surely have been a demonic delusion!

[Incognito1583]

I don't see any evidence from the New Testament that Saint Paul was ever deluded by the devil.