Numbers 31:18 and Moses

Olympiada · Post by **Olympiada** » Wed 25 October 2006 12:24 am

I have a question for you all. Recently I acquired an atheist mentor. He asked me about this Scripture:
31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
I said Moses must have made a mistake. He said I was not a Bible believing woman, therefore not a Christian. He said this was God saying to keep prepubsecent girls as concubines. And this is the Word of God?

GOCPriestMark · Post by **GOCPriestMark** » Wed 25 October 2006 5:34 am

It is not wise to discuss Holy Scripture with an unbeliever who scoffs at it, but there are other possibilities than the one he presents. Most likely it means to keep the virgin daughters to be marrried to your sons later.

Olympiada · Post by **Olympiada** » Wed 25 October 2006 12:13 pm

GOCPriestMark wrote:
It is not wise to discuss Holy Scripture with an unbeliever who scoffs at it, but there are other possibilities than the one he presents. Most likely it means to keep the virgin daughters to be marrried to your sons later.

Well I have three new messages in my inbox from that unbeliever. He has been studying the Bible for decades. I used to be an unbeliever you know, and still, as you see, have a hard time with the Bible. I think it means to take prepubescent girls as concubines. I am going to have to go over this with him again if I can stand to. Unbelievers aren't demons you know. And I have been known to be a foolish woman. Might as well stop fighting that accusation and just admit "I am a foolish woman" and get on with life!

Olympiada · Post by **Olympiada** » Wed 25 October 2006 12:46 pm

GOCPriestMark wrote:
It is not wise to discuss Holy Scripture with an unbeliever who scoffs at it, but there are other possibilities than the one he presents. Most likely it means to keep the virgin daughters to be marrried to your sons later.

One other thing Father, "most likely it means"... doesn't sound convincing to me. I want to know for certain what it does or does not mean. Also as Christians, are we required to accept all of the Bible?

GOCTheophan · Post by **GOCTheophan** » Wed 25 October 2006 3:12 pm

Olympiada wrote:
[. Unbelievers aren't demons you know. And I have been known to be a foolish woman.

Olympiada have you checked to see if you can find any Patristic commentary on that text?

Unbelievers may not be demons but they are certainly influenced by them, often demons dwell in them. St Paul talks about the "spirit of disobediance" that works in the childern of unbelief. Baptism is very much about excorism aswell as putting on Christ. This frightens me as I write it. Our life is in Orthodoxy is all about breaking communion with the fallen angels so that we can enter into communion with Christ. After we die the demons will attempt to claim our souls pointing out to the Divine justice where we actually belong to their "party".

And yes you must accept that the Bible is the words of God who's author is the Holy Spirit.

Theophan.

Olympiada · Post by **Olympiada** » Wed 25 October 2006 4:55 pm

GOCTheophan wrote:
Olympiada wrote:
[. Unbelievers aren't demons you know. And I have been known to be a foolish woman.

Olympiada have you checked to see if you can find any Patristic commentary on that text?

Unbelievers may not be demons but they are certainly influenced by them, often demons dwell in them. St Paul talks about the "spirit of disobediance" that works in the childern of unbelief. Baptism is very much about excorism aswell as putting on Christ. This frightens me as I write it. Our life is in Orthodoxy is all about breaking communion with the fallen angels so that we can enter into communion with Christ. After we die the demons will attempt to claim our souls pointing out to the Divine justice where we actually belong to their "party".

And yes you must accept that the Bible is the words of God who's author is the Holy Spirit.

Theophan.

Which Theophan?
I just got a message from a canonical Orthodox priest that the OT is metaphorical for us.
I am not afraid of the demons. I have the angels to fight them.

GOCTheophan · Post by **GOCTheophan** » Wed 25 October 2006 5:51 pm

Olympiada wrote:
[Which Theophan?
I just got a message from a canonical Orthodox priest that the OT is metaphorical for us.
I am not afraid of the demons. I have the angels to fight them.

What do you mean which Theophan?

By "canonical" do you mean "World Orthodox"? Well actually that strikes me as Origienistic and it was the Antiochian as opposed to the Alexandrian school of exegesis that has always been considered more Orthodox. That said the "World Orthodox" will always go with the way of the "World"- creating an "Orthodoxy" paltable to our fallen natures bringing us into Communion with demons.

You yourself know something of the extent of homosexuality among the higher clergy of certain "jurisdictions".

The problemn is not that we should fear demons per se but fear our own evil selves. If we follow after our fallen nature than we enter into communion with the demons. The angels are always there but we drive them away by our evil ways.

Theophan.