'Many reasons…to go toward abortion'-Pat. Bartholomew

[尼古拉前执事]

The quote is from page 3 of http://www.oclife.org/vnine.pdf

Barthlomew said, the church also “respects the liberty and freedom of all human persons and all Christian couples. . . .We are not allowed to enter the bedrooms of the Christian couples,” he also said. “We cannot generalize. There are many reasons for a couple to go toward abortion.” (San Francisco Chronicle-7/20/90 p.A22)

[AndyHolland]

He may have been completely misquoted.

I've had three newspaper interviews and each time I have cringed at what was later written. It was completely wrong and misquoted. Reporters take notes in short hand, and if you look at their notebooks, you realize why they get it wrong so often.

If he really said that, then he shouldn't be Patriarch - but I really doubt he was accurately quoted. He wasn't going to be front page news, and likely a young reporter was sent out to get the story.

andy holland
sinner

[TomS]

If he really said that, then he shouldn't be Patriarch ..

Then we would have to find another candidate that the moslems would approve of

[drewmeister2]

From:
https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa ... OX&P=R6820

Orthodox Patriarchs "Wink" at Abortion
Fr Edward Pehanich

In the years since the fall of Communism across Eastern Europe the Orthodox
faithful of those lands have had the task of facing the unpleasant history
of the subjugation of their Church to the Communist regimes. With many
clergy and hierarchs compromising the Faith by unequivocally supporting the
policies of the atheistic state, the Church lost its prophetic voice in
society.There is hardly any room for us in the West to sit in judgment or
criticism, we who were safely and comfortably living in the religious
freedom of the West. What is most disturbing to me, however, is to see
evidence of such a trend continuing, even here where the voice of the Church
was never silenced by persecution.

..... Twice in the past few years we in America have witnessed visiting
Orthodox shepherds from abroad "wink" at the prevailing public sentiment on
abortion rather than loudly and clearly challenge us with the voice of truth
proclaimed by Scriptures, and echoed by the ancient Fathers and Councils of
the Church.

Patriarchs Speak

Recently, Armenian Christians in America welcomed into their midst His
Holiness, Patriarch Karekin I of Etchmiadzin in Armenia who came on a
pastoral visit to his flock. During a stop at St. Mary's Church in
Washington, D.C. the patriarch was questioned on the Church's position on
abortion.-

"We don't issue dogmatic statements and impose
dogmatic principles. That is intervening and
invading on the freedom of the conscience of the
people. When a person is Christianity nurtured
and his conscience is shaped by Christian
principles, that person should have the freedom
to manifest his or her attitude toward specific
problems such as abortion or the forms of
abortion. The church does not get involved in
that kind of detail. Jesus never, never imposed
anything upon his followers. If you want to
inherit the Kingdom of God, do this, do not do
this. if you want, that is the greatest characteristic
feature of Christianity. (The Washington Post -
1/20/96 p. B6)

Nearly identical in tone and spirit, and lack of any clear, prophetic
teaching are statements made by His Holiness, Patriarch Bartholomew of
Constantinople when he visited San Francisco in 1990 as the metropolitan of
Chalcedon as part of the entourage of the then Patriarch Dimitrios of
blessed memory. The San Francisco Chronicle recorded this exchange-

Asked the Orthodox Church's position on abortion, Bartholomew described a
stand more liberal than that of the Roman Catholic Church.

"Although the Orthodox Church believes the soul
enters the body at conception and, generally
speaking, respects human life and the continuation
of the pregnancy," Barthlomew said, the church
also "respects the liberty and freedom of all human
persons and all Christian couples. . . .We are not
allowed to enter the bedrooms of the Christian
couples," he also said. "We cannot generalize.
There are many reasons for a couple to go toward
abortion." (San Francisco Chronicle-7/20/90
p.A22)

For the rest of the article go to: http://www.oclife.org/vnine.pdf

[drewmeister2]

From:
https://listserv.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/wa ... dox&P=4306

SF Shows Off Its Ecumenical Spirit
Church leaders welcome head of Orthodox Christianity
Don Lattin, Chronicle Religion Writer

Pope Leo IX (1048-54) and Patriarch Michael I (1043-58) would be shocked.

There was Roman Catholic Archbishop John Quinn kneeling down to kiss the
ring of Orthodox Patriarch Dimitrios I -- only 936 years after leaders of
the Church of Rome and the Church of Constantinople excommunicated each
other in the Great Schism of 1054.

Quinn, the archbishop of San Francisco, made his gesture yesterday at an
extraordinary ecumenical meeting between Dimitrios, the archbishop of
Constantinople and world leader of Orthodox Christianity, and a dozen Bay
Area religious leaders.

Actually, the 11th century ecclesiastical curses that flew between Rome and
Constantinople, which refused to acknowledge the primacy of the Roman pope,
were formally lifted in 1965.

Nevertheless, the two largest and most ancient branches of Christianity
remain separate -- a division religious leaders in San Francisco are trying
to heal in their own small way.

Quinn said it is ''quite extraordinary'' that the Orthodox Patriarchate has
invited him to preach with Dimitrios at a 10 a.m. worship service tomorrow
at Davies Symphony Hall.

''His Holiness' visit heightens the consciousness of all of us to pursue the
road of deeper Christian unity,'' Quinn said in an interview.

Episcopal Bishop William Swing, in formal remarks yesterday to Dimitrios at
the Greek Orthodox Diocesan House in St. Francis Wood, said he hopes the
patriarch will ''feel the ecumenical spirit that abides in the Bay Area.''

United Methodist Bishop Melvin Talbert of San Francisco, a leading force in
the National Council of Churches, said the presence of the Orthodox churches
in that group helps provide ''balance'' to the ecumenical movement. The
Roman Catholic Church does not belong to the National Council of Churches.

KEY DIFFERENCES

Talbert said Orthodox and Protestant leaders ''struggle over the role of
women in the church,'' but he said working together is a way to ''learn how
to get along with other people in the world.'' Most Protestant
denominations, unlike the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches, allow the
ordination of women.

Dimitrios said his visit has helped him understand the unique ''social and
spiritual environment in which you are called to do your work.''

''But at the same time it must be confessed that contemporary societies,
with their material comforts and advanced technology, also offer,
unfortunately, the means of greater barrenness and erosion of the spirit,''
said Dimitrios, speaking through a translator at the breakfast meeting.
''This explains why the occupations of psychoanalysts, psychotherapists and
the like are flourishing.''

Dimitrios, 75, has given no news conferences or media interviews since his
July 2 arrival in the United States, although the man described by church
sources as his ''heir apparent'' did meet the press yesterday.

'NO HYPOCRISY'

''His All Holiness has been impressed with the simplicity and openness of
the American people and with their deep Christian faith,'' said Metropolitan
Bartholomais of Chalcedon, the patriarch's closest aide. ''There is no
hypocrisy. There is a sincereness and simplicity that must be proper to all
Christians.''

Asked the Orthodox church's position on abortion, Bartholomais described a
stand more liberal than that of the Roman Catholic Church, which condemns
abortion in all cases and whose clergy have, in some cities, excommunicated
leading pro-choice Catholics.

Although the Orthodox church believes the soul enters the body at conception
and, ''generally speaking, respects human life and the continuation of
pregnancy,'' Bartholomais said, the church also ''respects the liberty and
freedom of all human persons and all Christian couples.''

''We are not allowed to enter the bedrooms of the Christian couples,'' he
said. ''We cannot generalize. There are many reasons for a couple to go
toward abortion.''

Also joining Dimitrios at yesterday's ecumenical gathering were Bishop Lyle
Miller of the Evangelical Lutheran Church; Rabbi Malcolm Sparer, president
of the Northern California Board of Rabbis; and officials representing the
Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, the Society of Friends, San Francisco
Evangelical Association, the Reform Church of America, the Armenian
Apostolic Orthodox Church and the Moscow Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox
Church.

After the meeting, Dimitrios, who is considered the ''first among equals''
of Orthodox Patriarchs representing 200 million Orthodox Christians
worldwide, headed for Stockton for a parish visit.

[Justin Kissel]

Of course such would be against tradition, but a step forward when it comes to human rights. Sort of like contraception, slavery, and a thousand other things. Bravo.

[Benjamin W. C. Waterhouse]

Of course such would be against tradition, but a step forward when it comes to human rights. Sort of like contraception, slavery, and a thousand other things. Bravo.

No such thing as "human rights"; an atheistic/marxist invention with its roots in the demonic masonic enlightenment...