Coptic Orthodox

bogoliubtsy · Post by **bogoliubtsy** » Mon 14 July 2003 10:15 pm

I just returned a short while ago from purchasing an iced coffee at one of the several hundred thousand Dunkin' Donuts shops in Boston. While there I spotted an elderly Coptic (I'm assuming?) Orthodox woman with a cross tattooed on her forehead. This is the second woman I've seen there in the past two years with the same tattoo.
Maybe some board members think I should have confronted her heretical doctrine , but I have to say- seeing what appears to be a such a serious commitment to Christ like that makes some of our Euphrosynos Cafe debates seem a bit silly.
Just thought I'd share that.

Alyosha · Post by **Alyosha** » Tue 15 July 2003 10:16 am

Is it common for Coptic Orthodox to do that? Why?

A few years back I heard this story from a Lebanese immigrant. He had a large tattoo of the Crucifixion on his shoulder and when asked about it, he said he did it when heavy persecutions of Christians were going on in the village he lived in. He was afraid that when asked him whether he was a Christian, he would say “no” and betray Christ. That's why he got the tattoo. That story made quite an impression on me back then, still does. He was a young kid too. Makes me wonder what would I do.

Is that why that woman had a tattoo?

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Tue 15 July 2003 12:18 pm

I disagree Peter. She may have been a very pious person. And then she may have been like the Baal worshippers who tried to get their god to respond by cutting themselves with knives in the "show down" with Elijah. I don't go "picking fights" (debates) with people on the street, but then I don't assume they're Orthodox because they have a cross on their foreheard either. She may be as holy as one can get outside the Church. Or she may be one who on judgement day will say "Didn't I witness to you very openly?" and Christ will say "Yes, but I never knew you".

My Father has Gandalf tattooed (quite largely) on his right arm, and Smaug (quite large) on his left; he hasn't read Lord of the Rings in decades. Sometimes people are into a culture or something in that culture more than they are what is suppose to be the central focus of the culture. I know many Orthodox who could tell you all about hymnography. I've met Christians who could quote large portions of the Gospels word for word from memory. That doesn't mean they're holy, though.

Um... I'm NOT trying to be mean here, I just think you're jumping to conclusions. I don't believe I've been involved in very many silly conversations at the cafe, and if I have, I probably did so at the time because I'm still far from saintly, and so need "distraction" and "entertainment" to some extent. I don't think any of the conversations on ecclesiology and such are silly--perhaps just unnecessary (for one reason or another).

This is NOT coming out how I want it to... it sound like I'm preaching! Argh! Okay, how about this... ...I'm just trying to have a conversation Please don't take this post the wrong way.

bogoliubtsy · Post by **bogoliubtsy** » Tue 15 July 2003 1:25 pm

Paradosis,
I can't believe you disagree with me. This is probably the first time my opinions have been refuted on this board. Such audacity...

Ok...in all seriousness, I was under the impression that the tattoos are usually given in cases described above in Volha's story...when these Christians live near Muslims who could kill them for their faith...and when a cross on the body serves to help the living locate their dead and give them a Christian burial after such an occurence.

You're right though...Christian tattoos do not make a Christian. There are some great(in their own way) pictures online of Russian prison tattoos where you can see murderers with tattoos of Christ, the Theotokos, cathedrals, etc. These aren't repentant, converted murderers by the way.

Seeing the cross on the forehead last night just sort of transported me from my cozy American culture to another place where people are sometimes killed for their faith and are willing to identify themselves as Christians amongst anti-Christian agressors.

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Tue 15 July 2003 2:10 pm

I think I understand what you mean (from a different, though not toooo different, experience)

Jakub · Post by **Jakub** » Tue 15 July 2003 6:46 pm

Very interesting, however I believe the heretic comment is unwarranted and is used too much regarding Orthodox who are not of Russian origin. I just returned from a trip and spent sometime with a friend who is a Coptic Orthodox and he never made a disrespectful comment while discussing "other" Orthodox Rites, of course I was a different matter.

I would choose my words wisely.

james

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Tue 15 July 2003 6:53 pm

the heretic comment is unwarranted and is used too much regarding Orthodox who are not of Russian origin.

Huh? Care to elaborate?