Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

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尼古拉前执事
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Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible

Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

The Times
October 05, 2005

Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible
By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.

The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.

“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.

The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US.

Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”.

The document shows how far the Catholic Church has come since the 17th century, when Galileo was condemned as a heretic for flouting a near-universal belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible by advocating the Copernican view of the solar system. Only a century ago, Pope Pius X condemned Modernist Catholic scholars who adapted historical-critical methods of analysing ancient literature to the Bible.

In the document, the bishops acknowledge their debt to biblical scholars. They say the Bible must be approached in the knowledge that it is “God’s word expressed in human language” and that proper acknowledgement should be given both to the word of God and its human dimensions.

They say the Church must offer the gospel in ways “appropriate to changing times, intelligible and attractive to our contemporaries”.

The Bible is true in passages relating to human salvation, they say, but continue: “We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in other, secular matters.”

They go on to condemn fundamentalism for its “intransigent intolerance” and to warn of “significant dangers” involved in a fundamentalist approach.

“Such an approach is dangerous, for example, when people of one nation or group see in the Bible a mandate for their own superiority, and even consider themselves permitted by the Bible to use violence against others.”

Of the notorious anti-Jewish curse in Matthew 27:25, “His blood be on us and on our children”, a passage used to justify centuries of anti-Semitism, the bishops say these and other words must never be used again as a pretext to treat Jewish people with contempt. Describing this passage as an example of dramatic exaggeration, the bishops say they have had “tragic consequences” in encouraging hatred and persecution. “The attitudes and language of first-century quarrels between Jews and Jewish Christians should never again be emulated in relations between Jews and Christians.”

As examples of passages not to be taken literally, the bishops cite the early chapters of Genesis, comparing them with early creation legends from other cultures, especially from the ancient East. The bishops say it is clear that the primary purpose of these chapters was to provide religious teaching and that they could not be described as historical writing.

Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast of Christ the Lamb.

The bishops say: “Such symbolic language must be respected for what it is, and is not to be interpreted literally. We should not expect to discover in this book details about the end of the world, about how many will be saved and about when the end will come.”

In their foreword to the teaching document, the two most senior Catholics of the land, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, Archbishop of Westminster, and Cardinal Keith O’Brien, Archbishop of St Andrew’s and Edinburgh, explain its context.

They say people today are searching for what is worthwhile, what has real value, what can be trusted and what is really true.

The new teaching has been issued as part of the 40th anniversary celebrations of Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council document explaining the place of Scripture in revelation. In the past 40 years, Catholics have learnt more than ever before to cherish the Bible. “We have rediscovered the Bible as a precious treasure, both ancient and ever new.”

BELIEVE IT OR NOT (This is what the Roman Catholic bishops are saying)

UNTRUE

Genesis ii, 21-22

So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man

Genesis iii, 16

God said to the woman [after she was beguiled by the serpent]: “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

Matthew xxvii, 25

The words of the crowd: “His blood be on us and on our children.”

Revelation xix,20

And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with brimstone.”

TRUE

Exodus iii, 14

God reveals himself to Moses as: “I am who I am.”

Leviticus xxvi,12

“I will be your God, and you shall be my people.”

Exodus xx,1-17

The Ten Commandments

Matthew v,7

The Sermon on the Mount

Mark viii,29

Peter declares Jesus to be the Christ

Luke i

The Virgin Birth

John xx,28

Proof of bodily resurrection

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DavidHawthorne
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How hath the mighty fallen........

Post by DavidHawthorne »

Whenever I consider the post-schism, and particularly modern Roman church and compare her to the magnificent witness to Orthodoxy she was in the early centuries I think of this Scripture from 2 Kings 1:19,
"how are the mighty fallen!"
It's something I have noticed of late when looking for reliable commentaries for applying the Scriptures to my life. Whenever I browse bookstores for something that will warm my heart as I read the Scriptures, all that seems to get published these days is dry intellectual de-sacralizing tomes written by scholars who seem so focused on psychologically analyizing what the biblical author REALLY meant and what motivated him (whether he was aware of it or not) that it never seems to occur to these scribes that the Bible actually has a daily application. I think my favorite doubt-inducing, stuffed shirt comment from one of these books was concerning the book of Daniel: "It probably was not written by Daniel but by someone else of the same name......"
Good grief! And historical-critical Bible scholars think FAITH is blind!?!?!

In Christ,
Rd. David

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Kollyvas
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Catholic Church No Longer Trusts The Bible

Post by Kollyvas »

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/363 ... Bible.html

Catholic Church no longer trusts the Bible
10/14/2005 11:27
Catholic bishops declare that the story of the beginning of the world told in the Bible is full of contradictions

The hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church in Britain has published a teaching document instructing the faithful not to trust the Bible too much. The declaration of the Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland is called The Gift of Scripture.

The document has come out right at the time when conservative religious figures are getting particularly active in the West, the USA first of all. Many faithful insist that the creation stories told in Genesis must be taught at schools together with Darwin's evolution theory. They believe that the world appeared according to God's conception.

Right at this moment, British bishops declare that the story of the beginning of the world told in the Bible is full of contradictions, resembles the legends of other Ancient East people and cannot be considered historical. At best, it contains just few "elements of historical truth." They also deny the doomsday prophesies in the Book of Revelation. The authors of the document are sure the symbolic language of the Book should not be interpreted literally.

The declaration of British bishops shows that the Catholic Church is headily giving up its past conservatism. In the past, Copernicus and Galiley were sentenced to death for their scientific views. A hundred years ago, Pope Pius X declared Catholic scholars heretics for their attempts to apply critical historical methods developed by philologists studying ancient literature to the Bible.

Today, the church hierarchy openly recognizes the importance of critical approach to Scripture. They say that "the Word of God is expressed with the help of the human language" which is truly imperfect for this purpose. They add that the church must preach the Gospel as adapted to the changing time and to understanding of the contemporaries.

The authors of the document offer a simple criterion of judging what is true or not in Scriptures. They say everything the Bible says about the salvation is true, and at the same time add that "we cannot expect total accuracy from the Bible as concerning other worldly issues."

In the document, British bishops stigmatize the religious fundamentalism which, as they believe, justifies the superiority of one nation over others. Bishops say that interpretation of some phrases in Scriptures is absolute exaggerations.

Read the original in Russian: (Translated by: Maria Gousseva)

Pravda.Ru

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wit
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Post by wit »

Peace of Jesus Christ be with You!

Dear Brothers and Sisters, at first I'm sorry about my English -

  • I haven't been using this language for couple of years.
    I'm a Catholic monk and deacon from Poland.
    I study Catholic theology and I worry about the misunderstanding
    of Catholic theology in this forum.
    I grow up in Roman-Catholic Tradition, but I'm also near
    Eastern Tradition - I've got many Ukraine-Byzantine and Orthodox
    friends from Ukraine. Philokalia, The Story of Pilgrim, Geronticon, and especially
    Hesychast from Gase (Doroteus and Dositeus, Barsafanius) are
    very close to me.

I specialize in Scripture theology so I want to explain the words:

„We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy
or complete historical precision”

For example:

Genesis ii, 21-22

„So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man”

Catholic says, that this is a etiological text. It means that, this is not a historical chronic of first
parents (=complete historical precision), but it's a popular history (appropriate to the Hebrew mentality) which explains:

  1. that woman have the same nature that man (isz - iszsza) (theological truth)
  2. why people have one rib less (popular explanation - etiology)

Or another example:

Revelation i, 14

„His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire”

The Book of Revelation is based on Hebrew apocalyptic tradition. It's similar to Dn 7,9. There was
„Ancient”, here there is a Messiah. And it means that Messiah - Jesus has a Divine attributes.

„eyes were as a flame of fire” - Dn 10,6 - in apocalyptic symbolic the fire and everything that is
fiery is connected with transcendence (f.e. Ez 1,12-14). The eyes as a flame of fire means also
that He penetrates the whole universe, He knows what is inside of man - this is also the Divine attribute.

This is a simple example - Catholics don't say that the book of Revelation is untrue! They say, that
in Scripture we have the theological truth, and we have to understand the mentality of Bible authors,
the literacy gender that they use, to well understand that theological truth.

Once again I want to apologize for my English.

God bless You +

fr. Wit OFM

„Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” J 8,32

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ioannis
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Post by ioannis »

This is a simple example - Catholics don't say that the book of Revelation is untrue! They say, that in Scripture we have the theological truth, and we have to understand the mentality of Bible authors, the literacy gender that they use, to well understand that theological truth.

fr. Wit,

Your English seems pretty good.

What you are saying then, basically, is that you have to interpret Holy Scripture by understanding "the mentality of Bible authors". It seems then that this is a new interpretation based on more scholastic "insight", which for all intents and purposes is why there are so many versions of the so-called "Truth" already.

The Truth as we know it on Earth has been once and forever taught to us by being handed down through the generations (maybe 62 generations since Christ? - not much). Our proud human minds are not capable of eliciting more "truth" than was already given and understood. It is also evident that many things concerning God are simply a Mystery.

Christ said, "I the Way, the Truth and the Life; NO MAN cometh unto the Father BUT BY ME.",

And by extension so is His Body, the Church - it is "the Way", "the Truth", and "the Life", and no man comes to Christ except by His Church, the Orthodox Church.

I appreciate your explanation very much. But from an Orthodox perspective, what you explained is the same as saying the Scripture is not True. That is, when you attach additional, selective, interpretations based on what you think today, the real meaning, which might not even be known, becomes something else.

wit
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Post by wit »

Peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with You all!

Ioannis, I'm sorry, but You haven't understand me.

1. „this is a new interpretation based on more scholastic "insight”

It's not a new interpretation. It's the original interpretation = what the holy Author
wanted to tell us. He was Hebrew, and he was thinking like Hebrew, it wouldn't
be true if I would interpret him like he was Greek. It's not the addition, selective
interpretation, because it's based (I don't know, how it is in English, in Polish
it is „rooted in”) on Tradition.

2. „The Truth as we know it on Earth has been once and forever taught to us by being handed down through the generations (maybe 62 generations since Christ? - not much). Our proud human minds are not capable of eliciting more "truth" than was already given and understood. It is also evident that many things concerning God are simply a Mystery.„

Dear Brother, about the Tradition - it's true, that our human minds are not capable of eliciting more "truth" than was already given and understood, but the Holy Spirit can give us deeper understanding of it: J 16,13 „Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth”
Example for it: Acts 10,11-13 (the Church is opening for the Goim), or the firsts trinitarian heresies - the Church Fathers „created” the „mia usija, tres hipostasis”, or the word „Trinitas”. Or when were the controversies with gnostic Tertulian and Ireneus from Lion created the conception of „apostolic succession”. Or all the dogmas, or credo. It was the same Christianity, the same apostolic Tradition, but they "created" something "new".
And what about the Constantin time? When the Christianity became the official religion, the Church had to „create” new relation to the country.
The Tradition is from one side unchangeable (we believe the same as the apostles), and from the other is changeable (the historical context is changing).
(it's similar to the Only Truth - unchangeable LOGOS, who has taken our human,changeable nature.)

I feel that, I cannot explain what I want to say. I'm sorry for that. But maybe during the dialog the Lord will give it to us.
And I have a question - how the Orthodox Church explains the apostolic succession.

brother Wit

AndyHolland
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Science and Religion

Post by AndyHolland »

Having wasted much of my own life in the empty pursuit of reason, and seeing the end of all science as inherently ignorant except that science that attributes to God the first cause of all things, let this sinner fully agree with Solomon that Vanity-Vanity, all is Vanity.

Having concluded that empty vanity scientifically, mathematically, and philosophically, and understanding only one's own profound ignorance - the Orthodox Christian longs to become a little child whose desire is to rush into the arms of Jesus Christ, our true God - who is experienced as profound mystery. Rushing to greet Him and therefore His Father who is the first cause of all, through the power of the Holy Spirit to become a little child again and truly born again, we are granted through the Grace of God the privilege to handle Him who is in essence meek and lowly. It is that essence of humility therefore that we should seek with all our might, and therefore complete the commandments to Love God and one another.

As a Christian "I" cannot argue Darwinism, naturalism, or Roman Catholicism for they are the religions of others. As chief of sinners, "I" can only argue my religion, and my profound and inherent inability to properly achieve it - therefore, please pray for "me" a sinner.

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