Serbian Orthodox Bishop Shocked And Disappointed

DIscussion and News concerning Orthodox Churches in communion with those who have fallen into the heresies of Ecumenism, Renovationism, Sergianism, and Modernism, or those Traditional Orthodox Churches who are now involved with Name-Worshiping, or vagante jurisdictions. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


OrthoDoc
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Post by OrthoDoc »

Anastasios:

Once again (as always) you reply by mixing apples and oranges.

If the Roman Catholic Church had the proper Christian respect for the Orthodox in the first place. And had not spent the last 1000+ years trying to subjugate it though force, deceit, aggression, politics, lies, rewrites of history, etc. - WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION, NOW WOULD WE?

How dare you insinuate I condone murder! Murder is wrong but every country and religion has a right to defend itself against those who are trying to absorb them through force and deceit. It is force, aggression, lies, and deceit that start wars in the first place.

Once again you bring up 1946! We've gone over it too many times before for me to go over it again. Especially since you or any 'Eastern Catholic NOT in communion with Orthodoxy' have yet to give me an answer on how the UGCC would have faired better or be in a better position than they are today if the Russian Orthodox Church had refused Stalins edict to take back her wayward children.

There is no doubt in my mind you, as well as others, would be in here complaining about the Orthodox turning their backs on other christians in their time of need. In your mind, as well as others under Papal rule, the Russian Orthodox Church was damned no matter which of the only two options it was given it had taken.

This topic is about terrible things done to the Orthodox during WWII with the knowledge, participation, and sanction of the Vatican. And about the fact that not only does the Roman Catholic Church try to hide it, refuse to take responsibility for it, but has a Pope that insists on rubbing salt in the wounds of the Orthodox, while proclaiming he wants peace and unity with them at the same time he rubs the salt in their wounds!

Orthodoc

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Liudmilla
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Post by Liudmilla »

It's time to take a deep breath, shake hands and retreat to separate corners......we're not playing nice!

OrthoDoc
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Post by OrthoDoc »

http://famulus.msnbc.com/FamulusIntl/re ... reg=EUROPE

MSNBC

Papal mass stirs painful memory for Bosnian Serbs
By Dragana Dardic

Code: Select all

  BANJA LUKA, Bosnia, June 22 - Dark memories of a bloodthirsty friar nicknamed Brother Satan were revived on Sunday as Pope John Paul held mass at the site of a monastery linked to a World War Two massacre of Orthodox Serbs.
   Over 2,000 from a village near what is now the main Bosnian Serb republic city of Banja Luka were slaughtered in the 1942 atrocity by Croat forces of the Nazi-allied Ustashe regime.
   The 83-year-old pontiff, on his first visit to the Orthodox Serb part of Bosnia, appealed for reconciliation between Serbs, Croats and Muslims after their bitter 1992-95 war. He also asked Serbs to forgive the wrongs of the Catholic Church.
   ''From this city, marked in the course of history by so much suffering and bloodshed, I ask almighty God to have mercy on the sins committed against humanity, human dignity and freedom, also by the children of the Catholic Church, and to foster in all the desire for mutual forgiveness,'' the pope said in a homily.
   In World War Two the Petricevac monastery was home to a Franciscan friar, Tomislav Filipovic Majstorovic, who became known as Fra Sotona or Brother Satan.
   According the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, he combined religion with political ideology and is said to have taken part in the massacre, slashing the throat of a child with the words: ''This is the way I baptise these fatherless kids in the name of God.''
   The friar became commandant of the Ustashe concentration camp at Jasenovac, where he is said to have killed freely.
   On Sunday, relatives of Ustashe victims lit candles at a monument in the village of Drakulici, as the sound of singing drifted from the papal mass for some 50,000 pilgrims.
   ''It is a creepy fact that the pope holds a mass at Petricevac,'' said Jovan Babic, who has investigated the massacre in which dozens of children were also killed.
   ''If he knew what are the links between Petricevac and the massacre, he would have never held the mass there,'' Babic added.
   Nedjeljko Glamocanin, whose entire family was killed in the Ustashe onslaught, said the pope was not welcome in Banja Luka unless he apologized but there would be no violence.
   Bosnian authorities were taking no chances. Some 4,000 police backed by troops of the NATO-led peacekeeping force were providing security for the pope's one-day visit.
   Two days before he arrived several known Serb hardliners were taken into detention. Shortly before the pope's plane touched down, traffic was held up while police checked a suspect car, later found to be harmless. Posters saying ''Pope Go Home'' appeared briefly in the city but were quickly removed.
   Two years ago, one man died when an angry mob of Bosnian Serb nationalists attacked a crowd celebrating the reconstruction of a mosque in Banja Luka.

Pope John Paul begs forgiveness for church's role in Bosnia's bloody past | CP
Sunday, Jun 22, 2003

Pope John Paul begs forgiveness for church's role in Bosnia's bloody past
BANJA LUKA, Bosnia-Herzegovina (AP) - Pope John Paul asked God's forgiveness Sunday for "so much suffering and bloodshed" inflicted by his own Roman Catholics and others in this embittered Balkan land during two 20th-century wars.

As NATO peacekeeping troops provided security, the frail 83-year-old Pope urged Bosnia's rival Muslims, Roman Catholic Croats and Orthodox Serbs to put their differences behind them and forge a lasting multiethnic society.

He stressed the need for a "genuine purification of memory through mutual forgiveness," a dominant theme of his nearly 25-year papacy.

John Paul, weakened by Parkinson's disease and crippling knee and hip ailments, looked drawn and uncomfortable as he sat under a yellow canopy during an open-air mass for 50,000 pilgrims. The temperature reached into the 30s, but he held up during the nearly three-hour service, slurring his words at times.

The Pope struggled to his knees for five minutes of prayer at Banja Luka's cathedral before leaving for Rome. His hand trembled considerably, but he seemed in good spirits.

A Vatican official, speaking on condition of anonymity, suggested a hoped-for trip in August to predominantly Buddhist Mongolia - home to just 170 Catholics - would be postponed.

"The time is not yet ripe. A bishop has to be named and the church must still be built up," the official said. John Paul still intends to press ahead with a visit to Slovakia in mid-September.

Sunday's mass site - the monastery of Petricevac - was highly symbolic. It was destroyed by Serbs in 1995 near the end of a 3½-year war that killed 250,000 people and created 1.8 million refugees.

During the Second World War, a priest from Petricevac led Croat fascists, armed with hatchets and knives, to a nearby village. In the 1942 attack, they butchered 2,300 Serbs, including 500 women and children.

"From this city, marked in the course of history by so much suffering and bloodshed, I ask Almighty God to have mercy on the sins committed against humanity, human dignity and freedom also by children of the Catholic Church," John Paul said in Bosnian.

The Pope beatified Ivan Merz, a Catholic theologian who took a vow of celibacy and devoted his life to the church in the early 1900s. Beatification is the last step before possible sainthood, and Merz would be Bosnia's first saint.

The Vatican hoped the pontiff's visit and the beatification would strengthen Bosnia's minority Catholic community and halt an exodus the local church says is threatening it with extinction.

John Paul was greeted at Banja Luka's airport by the Serb, Croat and Muslim members of Bosnia's joint presidency. Later, in a private meeting, the leaders promised the Pope they would return to Catholic, Orthodox Christian, Muslim and Jewish communities any property seized by the communists after the Second World War, Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said.

Eight years after the last war, Bosnia remains under international administration as it struggles to overcome ethnic divisions and catch up with the rest of Europe.

"I know the long ordeal which you have endured, the burden of suffering that is a daily part of your lives," John Paul said. "Do not give up. Certainly, starting afresh is not easy. It requires sacrifice and steadfastness if society is to take on a truly human face and everyone is to look to the future with confidence.

"It is necessary to rebuild man from within, healing wounds and achieving genuine purification of memory through mutual forgiveness," the Pope said. "The root of every good - and, sadly, every evil - is in the depths of the heart. It is there that change must occur."

He also expressed hope that Bosnia will realize its aspirations to join a united Europe.

It was John Paul's second visit to Bosnia and his 101st foreign pilgrimage. It came two weeks after a five-day tour of neighbouring Croatia.

Although nearly one million refugees have yet to return to their pre-war homes, more Bosnians say they feel safe as an ethnic minority.

"This is the only happiness in my life - my only joy," said Stefka Topic, 80, a Croat returnee. "I will be in front of God real soon. I'm going home happy because I know Banja Luka is going to be a holy place after this."

Security was tight for the Pope's stop in Banja Luka, the administrative centre of the Bosnian Serb mini-state. More than 4,000 police officers backed by NATO-led peacekeepers and a European police force stood guard. Snipers patrolled rooftops and helicopters flew overhead.

Before the war, about 30,000 Croats lived in Banja Luka; only about 2,000 have returned. Many of Sunday's pilgrims travelled from other parts of Bosnia and Croatia.

=======

Orthodoc

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Subject: Pope's Bosnian Visit Insults Victims of Nazi Butchery

By Ana Dacic and Petar Makara
Edited by Jared Israel
[Posted 22 June 2003]

========================================================
Pope John Paul II is scheduled to visit the city of Banja Luka in Bosnia, in
former Yugoslavia, on June 22, 2003. This visit carries an ominous
significance for the victims of the Nazi-satellite "Independent State of
Croatia" which existed during World War II. [1]

During his visit, the Pope is scheduled to hold a mass on Sunday, 22 June,
at the Petricevac monastery and to beatify Ivan Merz, founder of an
organization called the Croatian Eagles.

Petricevac is a Franciscan Monastery. On February 6, 1942, Croatian Ustashe
forces led by the Catholic Priest Tomislav Filipovic from that monastery
massacred 2730 Serbs including 500 children in the most brutal manner. The
height of the horror happened at one school where 60 children were
slaughtered.

Describing that day in his book, 'Zasto Jasenovac?' ('Why Jasenovac?')
Prof. Marko Ruchnov writes: [2]

[Excerpt from 'Why Jasenovac?' starts here]

The following is the transcript of a Croatian witness' account, as given at
the sentencing of Fr. Filipovic who was tried for his crimes after World War
II:

"The slaughter began in this way. Before slaughtering the child of one
Djura Glamochanin, namely his little daughter Vasilia, Father Animal [Fr.
Filipovic] said these words, which are fitting only for Satan himself:
'Ustashas! I am doing this in the name of God! I am Christening these scum.
And you are to follow my lead. I will accept the entire sin on my soul. And
when we are done I will absolve you and relieve you of all guilt.'"

Mara Shunjich, a school teacher of Croatian origin, said during the trial
of Fr. Filipovic that Fr. Filipovic, with a few Ustashas, went to her school
and ordered her to separate children according to nationality. Then, he took
out a knife and uttered the following words: "Look, children!" And with
those words he started to slaughter the children. Some he only cut but did
not finish completely. So these half-slaughtered children, covered in blood,
ran in circles screaming horribly. These children were hunted by the other
Ustashas who would finish the children with the butts of their pistols.

[Excerpt from 'Why Jasenovac?' ends here]

Priest Filipovic later became a Commander at the Concentration camp complex
known as Jasenovac. This was the first Nazi death camp in Europe. It was the
trailblazer. At Jasenovac, Filipovic got the nickname "Fr. Satan". According
to the Simon Wiesenthal Center, Croatian Nazi Ustashas killed 600,000
victims in Jasenovac. These were overwhelmingly Orthodox Christian Serbs.
The figure also includes tens of thousands of Jews and Roma.

At Filipovic's Petricevac monastery, Pope John Paul II intends to beatify
Ivan Merz who founded the Croatian Eagles in 1922. This became the breeding
ground for Ustashe Youth, the Croatian version of Hitler Youth.

As far as we know, the Pope does not plan to beg forgiveness for the
atrocities instigated and led by Catholic clergy 61 years ago.

In this regard, it is worth noting how Filipovic ended up as a Jasenovac
camp commander. The German Nazis, afraid that the extremity of Fr.
Filipovic's actions would cause a Serbian rebellion, put him on trial for
his crimes. However, the head of the Jasenovac death camp complex, Maks
Luburic, intervened. He gave Filipovic a new name, Filipovic-Majstorovic,
and a post at Jasenovac. So where even the German Nazis wanted (for
opportunist reasons) to curb this monster, the Pope now makes his infamous
monastery a place of beatification.

This beatification adds insult to the injury committed in 1998 when the
Pope beatified Alojzije Stepinac, the Archbishop of Zagreb during the Second
World War. In Croatia, the Catholic Church did not merely turn a blind eye
to genocide. It was an active and enthusiastic participant. Priests and
monks took part in atrocities and forced conversions all across Croatia. The
Vatican also helped scores of Ustashas escape to North and South America and
Spain along the infamous 'Ratlines'.

Along similar lines, consider the following. During the Second World War,
after being tortured in unbelievable ways, Serbs were often thrown half-dead
into mountain crevasses, where they died slowly. After the Second World War
these crevasses were cemented over, as if thereby the past could be
forgotten. In the mid-1960s, the Catholic Church made an area less than ten
miles away, called Medjugorje, one of its holiest shrines. So both with
Medjugorje and with Filipovic's monastery, we see the leaders of the
Catholic church, instead of begging forgiveness for horrible crimes,
conducted by priests in the name of the Church, creating places of holy
significance.

The Pope has been saying for years that Rome's reconciliation with the
Orthodox Church is a major objective. But his planned activities in the
Balkans can only deepen the schism that has divided Eastern and Western
Christians for almost a thousand years.

The survivors and descendents of these terrible crimes are offended by the
Pope's actions. They believe that the public should be made aware of the
significance of this event and are asking the Catholic faithful to pressure
their church into making a true reconciliation with the Serbian people.

Ana Dakic, Serbia, Yugoslavia
Petar Makara, USA
Jared Israel, USA


  • Footnotes and Further Reading *

[1] "Meet The Nazis The CIA Married: The Croatian Ustashi," By Petar Makara
And Jared Israel
http://emperors-clothes.com/docs/backin.htm

[2] From 'Zasto Jasenovac?' ('Why Jasenovic?') by Prof. Marko Ruchnov,
Published by Nikola Pashich, Belgrade, 2001, p.415. Prof. Ruchnov wuotes
from the book, 'Kozara Partisan Unit', by Dragutin Churguz and Milorad
Dignjevic, Prijedor, 1982.


Emperor's Clothes
[ www.tenc.net ]

==========

Orthodoc

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Julianna
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Post by Julianna »

:o Thanks for sharing these hidden papist evils! How can papists defend this :?

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Methodius
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How sickening!

Post by Methodius »

How sad!

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Seraphim Reeves
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Anastasios

Post by Seraphim Reeves »

PS I don't doubt that St. Alexander Nevsky is a saint (apparently John Paull II thinks so since he prayed at his tomb) and sure he did defend his country as I would have. I just merely pointed that out so that we can be realistic, that Orthodoxy has many warrior saints, and that Orthodox individuals murdered Catholics as well. I still believe Orthodoxy is right ultimately but I am not a "rah rah, my Church or bust!" kind of guy.

As another poster wrote, "apples and oranges."

1) A warrior saint, protecting Serbia against foreign (Latin) aggression. In other words, a soldier battling soldiers, who was recognized for his personal sanctity.

2) Josephat and Stepanic, in various ways involved in using foreign military power to commit genocide; soldiers supported by foreign powers, used not to fight other soldiers, but slaughter civilians (including countless women and children.) Both are to varying degrees "sainted" by the RCC

3) The tragedy of the Greek Catholics - a communist controlled Church, following communist directives to assist in the (forced) reintegration of Greek Catholics into the Orthodox Church. Unfair, un-Christian, and doubtlessly would not have happened were it not for communist involvement. No Orthodox Christian I've known of is an apologist for this tragedy...neither has the Orthodox Church manufactured saints out of this affair.

I do not see how 1 & 3 are at all like #2.

Seraphim

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