Toll houses

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.
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Nektarios14
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Toll houses

Post by Nektarios14 »

This is an issue that I don't yet have a strong opinion on and would like input and convincing from both sides. Thus far I have believed in a moderate toll house theory (not sure if there is technically such a thing, but I believe in it!. I believe they exist, but at the same time I think people must be very very careful not to dogmatize in an area where not much has been revealed to us. What are some good patristic quotes going either way, and how would you explain what you believe regarding toll houses?

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尼古拉前执事
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Book recommendation and a joke

Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

I take the middle ground too I guess. They are not literal tollhouses but spiritualy ones that are best described as tollhouses to mortal minds. Have you read The Soul After Death: Contemporary "After-Death" Experiences in the Light of the Orthodox Teaching on the Afterlife by Father Seraphim (Rose)? It is full of the patristic teachings and quotes.

Of course there is the other thing that a good friend of mine said once, if the liberals, the modernists, the heretics and ecumenists are all anti-tollhouses, then toll houses have to be right! :wink: :P

user_117
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webpage REGARDING THE "TOLL-HOUSES"

Post by user_117 »

The issue of tollhouses is closely related to correct understanding of Orthodox anthropology.

Articles at the site include different writers besides Lazar Puhalo. Quite in depth. Enjoy!

http://www.new-ostrog.org/

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

Sending someone to new ostrog for information on toll houses would be like sending someone to a Roman Catholic apologetics website for information on the filioque.

bogoliubtsy
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Post by bogoliubtsy »

During the time of the toll-house debate between Fr.Seraphim Rose and Lev Puhalo, the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia issued this statement. I find it to be one of the best pieces of writing on the topic.

The Debate Over Aerial Toll-Houses

EXTRACT FROM THE MINUTES OF THE SESSION
OF THE SYNOD OF BISHOPS OF THE
RUSSIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH OUTSIDE RUSSIA

On 19 November/2 December, 1980, the Synod of the Bishops of the
Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia heard: the extensive
correspondence connected with the controversy raised by Deacon Lev.
Puhalo [(Ed. now Archbishop Lazarus of New Ostrog Monastery (Synaxis
Press)] with regard to a book by Hieromonk Seraphim (Rose) on life
after death. In the book in question a great many false teachings
concerning the soul outside the body are investigated, with however,
the purpose of contrasting an Orthodox explanation with them.
However, entering a domain which has not been fully revealed to us,
and furthermore, unwillingly employing non-Orthodox materials.
Hieromonk Seraphim, despite various reservations, initiated a
controversy, in which his opponent, Deacon Lev Puhalo, paying no
heed to the disclaimers, with yet greater persistence, and with a
spirit of condemnation, wrongly accuses him of heresy. This
controversy can cause great harm to the souls of the faithful.

They directed: Theologically evaluating the book of Deacon Lev
Puhalo, Bishop Gregory, in the review he made for the Synod of
Bishops, reports the following:

Fearing, as is natural for an Orthodox person, the possibility of an
Western or other non-Orthodox influence, Deacon Lev Puhalo has gone
to the opposite extreme and contradicts a number of teachings which
have long been accepted in Orthodox Dogmatic Theology. Thus for
example, fearing lest the teaching concerning the "Toll-Stations" be
likened to the Latin Doctrine of Purgatory, he leaves almost no
place for what in Orthodox dogmatic theology is referred to as
the "particular judgment", after which the soul experiences a
foretaste of the blessedness or the eternal torment which awaits it
after the resurrection.

The state of the soul after death Deacon Lev Puhalo represents as
its utter inability to function in any way whatsoever other than
with the assistance of the body (p.7). As he understands the matter,
after its departure from the body, the soul finds itself in a state
of mute and blind repose. "An active, intellectual life or
functioning of the soul alone could never be conceived in either Old
or New Testament thought. For the soul to function, its restoration
with the body as the 'whole person' would be absolutely necessary"
(p.9). "

user_117
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THE RETURN OF THE TOLLHOUSES

Post by user_117 »

Here's excerpt from article found on newostrog website which is a critique of the Minutes or, more precisely, the review of The Soul, the Body, and Death made to the Synod by Bishop Gregory (Grabbe).

THE RETURN OF THE TOLLHOUSES

REV. DR. MICHAEL AZKOUL

2

It is a shame when devout Orthodox err in matters of the Faith; but it is a warning that none is free from the vicissitudes of our mortal life. There are no certainties outside the Church, no assurances without diligence. Special care must be taken not to confound personal discoveries with divine communications, nor intellectual trends with ecclesial truth. Therefore, it is disconcerting when they fail to understand the issue raised by Fr Seraphim's book, and persist in pursuing, to the detriment of the Faithful, a matter theologically settled by Archbishop Lazar's refutation. The Soul After Death initiated a controversy with no justification, and now, from quarters sympathetic to him, there is another attempt to redefine the Apostolic Tradition with precisely the same tools. As already mentioned, The Orthodox Christian Information Center has redistributed an extract from the Minutes of the Session of the Russian Church Abroad concerning "controversy" over the theory of "tollhouses" caused by Deacon Lev Puhalo.19 The bulk of this paper is a critique of those Minutes or, more precisely, the review of The Soul, the Body, and Death made to the Synod by Bishop Gregory (Grabbe).

Having read the reviews more than once, I am convinced that His Grace did not give the book the attention it deserves. He drew upon his own learning and background. He did not test the details of Archbishop Lazar's work against its sources. Bishop Gregory makes no mention of the impressive excerpts from the writings of the Greek, Latin and Syriac Fathers, nor is there any reference to the pages of icons of the Last Judgment with their erudite interpretations. There is a certain dishonest cunning in his allusions to "Archpriest Malinovsky, the author of a dogmatic theology,20 valued highly by Metropolitan Anthony" (Khrapovitsky). He presumes to insinuate this saint and perhaps the greatest Orthodox patristic theologian of this century into a "controversy" on the side of his own prejudices. He has no knowledge and, therefore, has no right to even suggest that the Metropolitan professed this theory.21

Bishop Gregory introduces the familiar argument that the "tollhouses" are found in the divine services of the Church. We are not informed where he obtained his translations of the troparia (found also in Fr Rose's book) used to support his contention. "Mention of them is also made in the Octoechos of St John Damascene," His Grace tells us (2 of 4). Where? What is the context? What kind of "tollhouses" - of the ascetic or the Gnostic type? Perhaps, like Fr Rose and Fr Pomazansky, St John equates the "tollhouse" with the Particular Judgment? Likewise, we are to believe that the Damascene and the other Fathers provided us with the Lord's words - "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent Me hath everlasting life and shall not enter into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life" (Jn.5:24) - as evidence that "the righteous can pass through these toll-stations unhindered"? (2 of 4). His Grace, convinced by what he imagines to be the overwhelming proof in favour of the "tollhouse" theory (according to Hieromonk Seraphim), concludes, "Minimizing the significance of the fear in the face of the consequences of a sinful life and after the departure of the soul from the body, the teaching of Fr Lev can weaken in the souls of his readers one of the stimuli to do battle with sin" (2 of 4). In fact, the "tollhouse" thanatology could lead some to despair, as indeed it has.

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Methodius
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Lazar is a Heretic!

Post by Methodius »

That is "arch-heretic" Lazar.

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