Prayer Books

[Justin Kissel]

Nicholas

For instance "beyond compare more glorious" makes sense to me, while "more glorious beyond compare" seems convoluted.

I don't see much of a difference, though if you take a look at my posts, I don't really worry much about being "proper" or being grammatically correct. I tend to put style (even if my "style" is something akin to controlled chaos meets run-on sentences) well above "correct English."

And "thou who without stain barest God the word, and are truly Theotokos, we magnify thee." pales in comprehensability of "who without corruption gavest birth to God the Word, the very Theotokos, thee do we magnify."

Again, I don't see much of a difference. The main two differences seem to be:

1. Between stain and corruption, where I would probably grant that corruption is clearer; and

2. Between barest and gavest birth, where I don't think either is more proper. She did both, and both are important. Theotokos can also be rendered either God-bearer or Mother of God. So again, I don't see the big deal about it. Do you know of any material where a bishop or saint showing the importance of one rendering over others? (actually, I have such material by Puhalo, but I hardly consider him an authority).

God the Word weally isn't with a lower case W in the Antiochian translation, is it?

I doubt it.. I was quoting from memory there, I haven't opened my Antiochian book in months, and it's in storage right now, so I can't check. Sorry.

Justin

[Justin Kissel]

As an example of why I tend to use a synthesis of various renderings in my prayers, I will post one of my favorite biblical psalms as found in the Psalter (According to the Seventy):

"I was the smallest among my brethren, and the youngest in the house of my father; I did shepherd the sheep of my father.
My hands made an instrument, and my fingers fashioned a psaltery.
And who shall tell my Lord? The Lord Himself, He Himself shall hearken.
He sent forth His angel and took me from the flocks of my father, and anointed me with the oil of His anointing.
My brethren were big and good, yet the Lord took not pleasure in them.
I went forth to meet the alien, and he cursed me by his idols.
But I drew his own sword and beheaded him, and took away the reproach from the sons of Israel."

Though the Psalter give no indication as to which Psalm this is, calling it for some strange reason simply "A Psalm," this is actually Psalm 151, and is counted as part of the scriptural canon by many Orthodox and by many Church Fathers. Words like "alien" and "psaltery" might have been acceptable at the time of the original rendering, but words like this certainly have a different meaning now. Especially hard to swallow (or say) is the line "My brethren were big and good".

In the beginning of the Psalter they talk about some of this, pointing out the above errors in other works. It seems strange, then, that they fall into the same errors, selecting words whose meanings have changed, and providing possibly technically correct but nonetheless awkward renderings. This is honestly how I feel when I read a lot of liturgical information in English. I remember one of the monks at one monastery joking about how they had to constantly help a monk at another monastery because he (a Greek, someone who had spent much of his life on Athos) was attempting English translations but kept using words that were technically correct but sounded simply awful when it came time to use them. I feel the same way, though of course I'm not about to correct monks! Still, I feel like I should correct certain things for my own use.

[Logos]

I currenlty use the little red paperback prayer book put out by the Antiochians. I like it because it is convenient to travel with and has many prayers in it along with the Divine Liturgy and the preparation before confession. I have heard about the Jordanville prayer book and looked at it. It is quite impressive. However, I was wondering if there is a prayer book out there that contains a wide range of prayers such as general prayers of thanksgiving, prayers when you are depressed or lacking faith, and also prayers to various saints. Also, I am looking for something that has prayers written by different saints.