What to do about Islamic Expansion in US?

brendan · Post by **brendan** » Mon 13 September 2004 12:37 am

Our priest today said he had just returned from a meeting with other Orthodox clergy from around the country. One of the main topics of discussion was what should Orthodoxy do about the tremendous expansion of Islam in the US. In Chicago, for example, the number of mosques has increased from 2 to 18 in just the past few years and shows no sign of stopping. More disturbing, many native-born US citizens are converting to Islam and this is fueling Muslim expansion.

It was recommended that all Orthodox Christians re-dedicate themselves to their Church, pray more, and also to seriously increase proselytizing efforts. I think this is all good.

Any comments or further suggestions? I have a couple, but I'll see what you folks have to say.

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Mon 13 September 2004 2:11 am

Certainly what the clergyman agreed to is important. I would also say that we would need to go back over the basic tenets and practices of our faith, having in mind arguments that Muslims might use against us. Many Orthodox in the west today are ready for Catholic and Protestant arguments, at least to the extent that we can come to a "draw" in an impromptu debate/discussion. But would we be able to answer a muslims charges?

Are we polytheists? If not, why not? Can we go beyond a simple "three persons/one essense" catch-phrase defense, and really get into a meaty and reasoned defense? What evidence can we provide that Jesus was and is God?

Are we immoral and immodest? If not, how do we explain how members of our own religion dress, act, etc. in public and private? How do we defend ourselves without judging and condemning our brothers and sisters in Christ?

Are we creation worshippers? Does bowing down before icons make us idolatrous? Are we familiar enough with the theology of Sts. Theodore the Studite, John of Damascus, et al. and the 7th Ecumenical Council to refute the Islamic charges?

Most importantly (on all three points and more), can we defend our positions using evidences that they will not automatically dismiss out of hand, but will at least give a listen to? Saying "the Bible says this" or "the Fathers say this" won't do much when debating a Muslim, as it will when debating a Protestant or Catholic. Personally, I know I am very unprepared for such debates.

George Australia · Mon 13 September 2004 3:17 am

Justin Kissel wrote:
Personally, I know I am very unprepared for such debates.

Personally, rather than preparing for debates, I think we should strive for ceaseless prayer, ascesis and above all, Love. In a few short centuries, the Early Church managed to spread the Christian Faith throughout the Roman Empire, not by debates, but because people saw the way the Christians lived their lives, and everywhere the pagans were heard to say: "See how these Christians love one another!" Today, all we can do is debate. If my way of life brings no-one to the faith, then my words certainly won't.

In Christ,
George

brendan · Post by **brendan** » Mon 13 September 2004 4:06 am

George Australia wrote:
Justin Kissel wrote:
Personally, I know I am very unprepared for such debates.

Personally, rather than preparing for debates, I think we should strive for ceaseless prayer, ascesis and above all, Love. In a few short centuries, the Early Church managed to spread the Christian Faith throughout the Roman Empire, not by debates, but because people saw the way the Christians lived their lives, and everywhere the pagans were heard to say: "See how these Christians love one another!" Today, all we can do is debate. If my way of life brings no-one to the faith, then my words certainly won't.

Everything you say is true and I'm going to make an effort myself. This will be hard as I'm so easily distracted by the world.

One other practical issue I think the Church should emphasize is that married Orthodox couples need to have more kids. One and two child families are often the norm, but these are not demographically self-sustaining and obviously not good for the Church in the long run. I think this is especially important given the very high Muslim birthrate that we're up against.

I think Orthodox leaders need to start talking about this issue as part of an overall strategy for increasing the number of Orthodox Christians. A side benefit might be to help people think about other things besides our own personal comfort and indulgence. I'm as guilty as anyone in that area.

I look around in my parish and there's a definite lack of young people. This is partially due to those who were raised Orthodox and don't attend, but also that most couples have so few kids to begin with. If each family had six kids, then even if half of them eventually fell away from the Church, there would still be enough to increase parish membership.

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Mon 13 September 2004 4:18 am

gphadraig · Post by **gphadraig** » Mon 13 September 2004 12:09 pm

Many attracted to Islam appear to be drawn by the apparent and single messages. It offers seemingly not simply belief but a whole life-style and sense of belonging.

By comparison most occidentals experience of Christianity will be something worn out, fragmented and giving contradictory messages, little different from the secular world around them. Young people seem not to find ascetic discipline off-putting but most 'Christian' lifestyles appear to lack any ascetic element.

Traditional Orthodox belief and ascesis lived and articulated without regard for narrow 'national' preoccupations and an 'Orthodoxy' which appears preoccupied with chasing after the agendas of local, national and world council of churches, false 'ecumenism' and inter-faith activities. A united witness and a distancing from everything contrary to Scripture and Tradition.

Liudmilla · Post by **Liudmilla** » Mon 13 September 2004 2:09 pm

Having more children per family is hardly the answer to re-populating the church, rather we should work on keep the children we already have focused and faithful to their faith. Our churches loose too many because of the lack of community within the church. New people do not want to convert for the same reason. We do not live in a Orthodox society or country, our churches need to provide the youth with not just spiritual food, but also a measure of social and communal food. A sort of church networking system. If the youth is not comfortable in their Orthodoxy, they will seek something else, we have to give them a reason to stay.

Having children you cannot support is just asking for trouble, for truthfully where would you find the time you need to raise such a brood and the time to ensure they are feed, clothed and educated. In the society we live in it's impossible. Yes, I know, God will provide, but you still bear the responcibility of those children.

Milla