Holy Empires

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

In another thread Justin mentioned: "I guess I'm a cynic when it comes to holy empires. In my humble and absolutely inexperienced opinion, the only Kingdom we should be fighting for isn't going to be found here."

Now I have heard that view expressed often enough, in fact it has been my view to an extent. It is an clean easy view to have. There is no ambiguity about fighting and hostility for temporal kingdoms. Recently however I have been shifting my opinion.

I would never suggest we, or anyone, ought to be fighting for a Holy Empire somewhere. But clearly Christ promoted and protected nations and peoples in the Old Testament. And in Catholic history, the Christian Roman Empire was a tremendous promoter of the Church; it is impossible to calculate the enormous impact on life today.

I don't have time to elaborate much, and I want to make it clear that I am not advocating militant astetics; but I would suggest there could be such a thing as a Holy Empire, not as a nationalistic idol where the purpose of Christianity is to build the ideal state, but as a promoter, facilitator, and defender of Holy things. America is the promoter and defender of aethism, materialism and sickness, the Christian Roman Empire and the Russian Empire was the promoter of the Church.

[Justin2]

Yes, OOD, the world might be a better place with some manner of governing body wielding the sword in the name of Holy Orthodoxy, but in terms of returning a deposed empire to something or all of what it once was is a bit too far, I'd say. Realistically, the best bet for any kind of Orthodox stronghold in the international community is (forgive me if I curdle your blood, dear Russian brethren) Russia. Their President is Orthodox, though to some on the board not in the strictest sense of the word, and he's a former KGB member, but really, there isn't much else in terms of a powerful nation with an Orthodox majority in both population and government (I love Greece greatly, but they're not as big as Russia...cheers to the football team's win over Portugal though!).

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Justin,

I was not at all serious about "restoring" any dynasty. That would be rather crazy. Unless you know of some uncharted island somehwere.

Perhaps the best bet for an Orthodox nation is Russia, but as you say, the chance of anything like we've seen in the past is not a realistic idea. Even if Russia were to restore Orthodoxy, it is being invaded by every religious barbarian immaginable, but worst of all, has no real borders with the way communications are today. The internet, TV, and radio can pump in the same trash as everywhere else. Their society will be modelled after europes, it won't be long.

My friend in St. Petersburg does not paint a very positive picture of Orthodoxy in Russia. Long story short, very few people go to church.

[Chrysostomos]

I think the "issue" is that of Unity. They were in one accord.
They had a common cause. Their faith was one. Today,
unfortunately, more time is spent on jurisdictionalism and
issues of ethnicity, on matters of Canon law.

Words of St. Cyprian to consider:

"How inseparable is the sacrament of unity. And how hopeless
are they - and what excessive ruin they earn for themselves
from the indignation of God - who make schism and,
forsaking their bishop, appoint another false bishop for
themselves from outside."
Cyprian (c. 250, W), 5.399

"Because we see that there are tares in the church, we
ourselves should not withdraw from the church. Rather,
we should only labor that we may be wheat."
Cyprian (c. 250, W), 5.327

I myself chose to labor that I may be wheat.....
May I be ready when the harvest takes place.

Rd. Chrysostomos

[TomS]

Perhaps the best bet for an Orthodox nation is Russia

Greece is already an Orthodox Nation.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Greece is already an Orthodox Nation.

Greece is certainly an Orthodox nation in name, but the general direction society is heading is definatley not Orthodox.

[Nektarios14]

Greece is certainly an Orthodox nation in name, but the general direction society is heading is definatley not Orthodox.

The problem is getting an actual look at what life was like in either Holy Russian or the (eastern) Roman Empire for the average citizen. In Russia there were tsars (Peter I and Catherine II for example) that were VERY secular, almost anti-Orthodox. So it is hard to compare, and not accurate to say past Orthodox empires were all rosy. And I am not defending the current status of the nation of Greece either.... it will be intersting to see though, I am hoping to go there next year - but I won't get a real look at the country as I'll mostly stay on Agion Oros and hopefully get to see Aegina as well.