Byzantine Catholics?

[demetrios karaolanis]

the only thing I wonder about as you said how did some of these people enter the church. if inquirers about the church would check out that forum they may be repulsed by some of the postings. I just hope they will find the true path is all I have to say.

[demetrios karaolanis]

I went and saw some of the postings by this axios. he has some very messed up and warped ideas. I am surprised they speak to him about these things. once it says he argued that the church should allow homosexual priests :shock:

[Seraphim Reeves]

I don't think the essence-vs.-energies distinction (I'll be honest, much of that stuff goes over my head) is seen as a dogmatic difference by Catholics.

I think the essence/energies distinction is one that is more "practically" felt; it affects everything, yet is not a slogan for either side (save perhaps when theologians, or wannabes like us, get together and talk.) I'm not denying it's importance; in fact it explains a lot, and is perhaps part of the underlying difference in mindset which divides Orthodoxy and Catholicism more deeply than any of the particulars (such as the Papacy, filioque, etc.)

Seraphim

[demetrios karaolanis]

I guess bottom line they are a church who uses an orthodox tipe liturgy but is under the pope. I guess I should look at my own faults before I condemn them though. do not look at the splinter in a brother's eye when you have a plank in your own.

[Anastasios]

Many Byzantine Catholics would happily embrace Orthodoxy if they were embraced by Orthodox as brothers and encouraged to find their faith more deeply (i.e. in the Orthodox Church). Instead, many Byzantine Catholics, when visiting Orthodox Churches, for instance, are looked at with contempt and called "uniates", etc.--when they are there to learn! This has happened to me and several of my friends (I am still Byzantine Catholic but attend an Orthodox seminary and am working on getting personal things straightened out so I can join Orthodoxy officially). Once, my friend and I were hissed at by a woman, literally, after she found out we were Byzantine Catholics! With that kind of attitude, no wonder our people got estranged. Of course it works both ways and Byz. Catholics have done the same to Orthodox, but without love, respect, and kindness, there won't be any progress towards getting Byz. Catholics to embrace Orthodoxy. You can disagree with Byz Catholic teachings and still love the individuals (and not be condescending, either, as is the orthodoxinfo.com article "The Tragedy of our Uniate brothers" which made me annoyed. Just be friendly and pray, and offer a witness. It's the only way with anyone, really, but especially with Byz. Catholics who quite possibly think of themselves already as "Orthodox but in union with Rome." We know this formula in the end doesn't work but try to build on the foundation Byz. Catholics already have, instead of attacking full force.

[OrthoDoc]

Dustin writes:

[You can disagree with Byz Catholic teachings and still love the individuals (and not be condescending, either, as is the orthodoxinfo.com article "The Tragedy of our Uniate brothers" which made me annoyed. Just be friendly and pray, and offer a witness. It's the only way with anyone, really, but especially with Byz. Catholics who quite possibly think of themselves already as "Orthodox but in union with Rome.]

But thats just it Dustin. You, as a non slavic convert to the Unia, do not carry either the history nor the emotional scars that were a direct result of the Roman Catholic Churches desire to subjugate their Orthodox Catholic brothers and sisters. Many of us here do including myself.

I'm sorry about your experience but I would rather think that is an exception rather than the rule. I certainly don't condone it but as some one who is aware of the insults, hardships, court cases, my grandparents had to suffer all because they wanted to return to the faith of their ancestors which was, and is, the Orthodox Catholic faith. A faith they didn't have the freedom to belong to while they were in Europe. And even had to suffer to establish here in America.

As their grandson I'm well aware of the horror stories they encountered during their journey back to Holy Orthodoxy. From the first meeting they had in the football field where the Byzantine Catholic priest called in the Pennsylvania State troopers to break up the meeting. Can you imagine the horror of a bunch of slavic immigrants when a bunch of uniformed police on horse back rode into the center of the field in the early 1900's? They thought the Cossacks had come to slaughter them! Thank God they were left alone once the police knew all they were doing was forming a new church! The court cases that insued after the church was built to try and take it from them. The first Orthodox priest being stoned as he walked down the street. The court case that claimed they were disturbing the peace for ringing the bells at midnight on Pascha!

In spite of all that, I don't know of one person in either that parish or the one I am a member of now that was either hissed at or treated in a cruel manner while they were in the church. In fact, a young Byzantine Catholic man was at Liturgy just this morning for the third time. His girl friend (who is Orthodox) is attending college in Philly. He comes to visit. This is the third time they have attended and the third time he was offered Blessed Prosphora by someone who took Communion and invited to the coffee social even though we all know he is Byzantine Catholic. My own priest as well as his brother (who is also an Orthodox priest) are both converts from the Byzantine Catholic Church.

So you see Dustin, many of us will greet you with love, friendship. and hospitality when you visit. What we won't do however, is allow you to come on the internet and tell us you are 'Orthodox In Communion With Rome'. That you are just 'In Communion ' with the Pope rather than under his authority. That you share exactly the same faith we do. That there are only minor differences between us. That our church is not 'Catholic'. That we were the ones that left the Roman Catholic Church.
That you are not required to adhere to the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church while being in communion with it. That every doctrine that we disagree with the RCC on can be designated as theologumenia. That we can believe whatever we want as long as we accept Papal authority. Or to take the last thing you have not taken from us already -which is our Orthodox identity and present it to the Pope, etc., etc.

It's all very simple Dustin. If you all truly want to be Orthodox then return to the Orthodox faith as my grandparents did. Rather than try and convince yourselves you are something you are not. Your church turned their backs on Holy Orthodoxy in the latter part of the 16th century or the early part of the 17th century depending on the location its people came from. Its that simple. And all the word games,i dentity changes, or rewrites of history will not change that.

Orthodoc

[Anastasios]

Dear Bob,

God bless you for your vigor of defending Orthodoxy. You are absolutely right that Byzantine Catholics shouldn