Deaconesses, Baptism and Catechumens

[Julianna]

None of the canons allow for schismatic groups either...you don't seem to take issue with that though.

Actually I take issue with you and your attitude The canons call for us to seperate from a bishop in heresy. When ROCOR fell under its own anathema according to canons we were called to seperate from it. We are a canonical church. We are in "schism" from ROCOR because the canons instruct us to

Altar servers are nice but not neccesary altar girls are modernist. Nuns in a convent is different. Using girls in a parish setting is wrong for numerous reasons

[bogoliubtsy]

That's fine. You can believe whatever you want...
I'm just slightly fearful that a lurker or someone with little Orthodox grounding would take the Russian Orthodox Autonomous(who did they gain their autonomy from?) "Church" seriously.
I'm not too fearful though, because I do have faith in the good sense of people, and don't think that the convert disease of super-correctness is too widespread.
You believe that Grace filled Orthodoxy does not exist outside of your so very tiny jurisdiction. Your jurisdiction teaches that anyone outside of your jurisdiction is heretical and deprived of Grace. Do you realize how serious that is? How incredibly serious that is? To say that with full confidence before God?
Why post and dialogue amongst heretics? Why cast your pearls amongst us swine?

[Liudmilla]

The first thing I would say is that it's time for Peter and Julianna to separate and go into separate corners.....Time to cool off a bit I think!!!! Sorry, but it's true.

Secondly, Julianna wrote.....

Altar servers are nice but not neccesary altar girls are modernist. Nuns in a convent is different. Using girls in a parish setting is wrong for numerous reasons

Altar servers have their function, whether it is performed by a boy, teenager, man or grandfather or for that matter a girl. They function in more ways than is always understood. They help the priest with many of the minor details that help him serve that service so beautifully. And they --as in the altar boys -- gain a tremendous amount from this serve to God. If you had read the posting you must have noticed that Fr andrew stated that girls were only used in those instances where no males --of any age-- were available to serve. He also stated that this practice was a long held Church Tradition. Hardly a "modernist" invention. The fact, that this is a little known practice, hardly makes it modernist. The Vladika mentioned was NOT a modernist, never was a modernist and was one of those "old school" bishops ---the strictest that I have ever known. So if he chose to use this practice when necessary, I hardly think that it was so wrong!

If this practice is wrong...kindly elaborate as to the incorrect nature. Why do you feel it is so wrong?

I feel that you are approaching this matter from that age old interdiction that Women are not allowed into the altar (Gasp!! God Forbid!! --Sorry I couldn't resist!). But the fact of the matter is that under certain conditions we are allowed into the altar. I remember as a young women feeling that this little bit of information made me feel a whole lot better about my position as a woman in the Church. I never served as an "altar girl", but the fact that I could have was very gratifying.

There is much within the faith and within the church structure that we do not know. Somethings having fallen out of practice, some that we have not learned or that we have forgotten. But this does not make them always wrong.

[bogoliubtsy]

Luidmilla,
The bell has rung....I've moved to my corner and am presently being doctored up.
Extremist Orthodoxy(not to be confused with "traditional") just makes me kind of nuts at times. I suppose though that I turn into the extremist when dealing with extremism.
Forgive my harshness.

[Justin Kissel]

I found your post (the response you posted) to be very interesting, LIUDMILLA. Thank you for posting it

If this practice is wrong...kindly elaborate as to the incorrect nature. Why do you feel it is so wrong?

I've been thinking about this, and I too would like to hear someone attempt a well-reasoned refutation of the position given, instead of a "we just can't do that!" type of argument (which I must admit was my basic position until a few days ago).

[Logos]

I found your post (the response you posted) to be very interesting, LIUDMILLA. Thank you for posting it

If this practice is wrong...kindly elaborate as to the incorrect nature. Why do you feel it is so wrong?

I've been thinking about this, and I too would like to hear someone attempt a well-reasoned refutation of the position given, instead of a "we just can't do that!" type of argument (which I must admit was my basic position until a few days ago).

I once read a well reasoned article on this whole topic on why women cannot be priests. I will try to find it.

[Julianna]

Boys are called to be altarboys in part to help them see what a priest does and hopefully inspire them to be one. there is no need for a female to take this place even if there are no boys. plus it would scandalize people coming in late and seeing altar girls which is reason enough to never do it