Concerning Kirikos, the Holy Trinity Icon, and his schismatic faction

[jdigrande]

Met Kirykos is listed on this site (by Maria) as Met. Kirykos under Traditonal Orthodox Churches along with the Metropolitan who forms the third faction from the GOC schism of the 1990's.

If I am regarded as schzoid to address people by the title they prefer I am in good company: St. Mark of Ephesus never addressed Pope Eugenios as heretic or Mr. Eugenios at Florence in 1439 but he did debate the heretical views of Pope ("Father" in Latin) Eugenius.

From the point of view of the GOC of Arch. Stephanos, all the Acacian bishops from 1960 on are schismatics and thus should be called by the title, Mr. or Doctor (if they have a PHD).

But in the list of Traditional Orthodox Churches on this site all of the Acacian leaders are listed as Archbishops or Metropolitans.

I understand Maria's point of view in that the schism within her church was painful and she and her spiritual father demand that he be called Monk Kirykos. But for the rest of us (many of whom are not in the Greek Church) we have not come to a final conclusion regarding the schism.

As far as who is portrayed on the Trinity ikon: God the Father or the Ancient of Days and when exactly when it entered into Orthodoxy, it is still being debated. But the important thing is that these ikons have never been destroyed or removed from Churches in the GOC whether in the church of Met. Kirykos or Stephanos.

[Maria]

jdigrande,

I have split off your post from its original thread since you have directly violated a moderator directive by continuing to post contentiously. Since this is not the first time, you are being giving a public warning.

Maria
Administrator

Met Kirykos is listed on this site (by Maria) as Met. Kirykos under Traditonal Orthodox Churches along with the Metropolitan who forms the third faction from the GOC schism of the 1990's.

Thanks for reminding me. I have deleted the web links to those two schismatic factions and have removed the title "Metropolitan" in front of their names. Since both of these schismatic groups believe that only their baptisms and sacraments are valid, as does Gregory of Colorado, they are no longer listed as part of the True Traditional Orthodox.

The real danger here is that Orthodox Christian married then divorced priests could be re-baptized, re-married to a new wife, and then re-ordained because all sacraments from all other Orthodox churches are considered to be non-existent. This is exactly what Gregory of Colorado has done. And I suspect that Kirikos is doing this likewise since Monk Seraphim was re-baptized, re-chrismated, re-ordained, and then re-consecrated.

From the point of view of the GOC of Arch. Stephanos, all the Acacian bishops from 1960 on are schismatics and thus should be called by the title, Mr. or Doctor (if they have a PHD).

This is very contentious red herring. I know where this is going as it is a point often made by Kirikos and his schismatic faction.

Archbishop Stephanos has always been very polite to the point of irritating Kirikos because His Eminence Archbishop Stephanos is trying to win people over to Christ through charity and truthfulness. On the other hand, Kirikos and his sect consider all those outside of their schismatic church, including Archbishop Stephanos, as unbaptized pagans and will tell that to people's faces directly to challenge them to join their schism. It is a recruitment tool, and it was used against me, so I speak from experience.

I understand Maria's point of view in that the schism within her church was painful and she and her spiritual father demand that he be called Monk Kirykos. But for the rest of us (many of whom are not in the Greek Church) we have not come to a final conclusion regarding the schism.

Listen carefully, jdigrande.

Schism and heresy in Christ's Holy Church are very deadly serious sins akin to murder, because these sins lead people astray causing death in one's soul and the loss of salvation.

So, in my point of view, not only is the Kirikos schism painful, but more importantly, it is deadly, causing the damnation of souls to hell.

As far as who is portrayed on the Trinity ikon: God the Father or the Ancient of Days and when exactly when it entered into Orthodoxy, it is still being debated. But the important thing is that these ikons have never been destroyed or removed from Churches in the GOC whether in the church of Met. Kirykos or Stephanos.

I have also noticed that you have consistently and carefully addressed Kirikos as either Bishop or Metropolitan, but you usually have referred to Archbishop Stephanos without his proper title, preferring to call him Stephanos. Furthermore, Archbishop Stephanos is a ruling Archbishop, not a mere Metropolitan.

[Orthodox in Michigan]

I would like to know how that works if one is married with children before becoming orthodox if after baptism is a remarriage ceremony necessary?

It seems crazy to me that one theoretically could just jump ship so to say join a group like Gregory of Colorado and get remarried and have more kids and be holy in a new church jurisdiction with a clean conscious .

[Maria]

I would like to know how that works if one is married with children before becoming orthodox if after baptism is a remarriage ceremony necessary?

When spouses are received into Holy Orthodoxy, and they are baptized, chrismated, and communed in the Orthodox Church, then their marriage is sanctified through the joint reception of Holy Communion. During Apostolic times and for many years afterwards, before the advent of the civil marriage, couples were united through the reception of Holy Communion. When the new couple with the permission of the Bishop received Christ in Holy Communion, then Christ, the Lord and God, united them. Later on, the Holy Mystery of Crowning was written down from the oral tradition that was handed down by the Apostles.

It seems crazy to me that one theoretically could just jump ship so to say join a group like Gregory of Colorado and get remarried and have more kids and be holy in a new church jurisdiction with a clean conscious .

This is the problem with cults. People will believe anything. When people are told that they can do something, which they know is intrinsically wrong, then they can become indecisive and scrupulous. It leads to mental illness, to schizophrenia.

[jdigrande]

Maria: My mistake: I referred to Archbishop Stephanos as "Stephanos" at the end of my thread. It was an accident.

[Maria]

Maria: My mistake: I referred to Archbishop Stephanos as "Stephanos" at the end of my thread. It was an accident.

Thank you.

[Maria]

I would like to know how that works if one is married with children before becoming orthodox if after baptism is a remarriage ceremony necessary?

When spouses are received into Holy Orthodoxy, and they are baptized, chrismated, and communed in the Orthodox Church, then their marriage is sanctified through the joint reception of Holy Communion. During Apostolic times and for many years afterwards, before the advent of the civil marriage, couples were united through the reception of Holy Communion. When the new couple with the permission of the Bishop received Christ in Holy Communion, then Christ, the Lord and God, united them. Later on, the Holy Mystery of Crowning was written down from the oral tradition that was handed down by the Apostles.

I forgot to answer the second part of your question: Would a previously married couple be given the Holy Mystery of Crowning?

Not necessarily because joint reception of Holy Communion seals their marriage. However, candidates for the priesthood would be married in the Church before their ordination. So, if a bishop considers a man who is to be baptized as a possible candidate for the priesthood, then that man will be joined to his spouse through the Holy Mystery of Crowning. The Holy Mystery of Crowning usually takes place at least a day after their baptism. The usual practice in the GOC is that the man and any male children would be baptized on the first day, the wife and any female children would be baptized on the second day, and then the couple would be Crowned on the third day.

I am going to copy this question into the Inquirer's thread as it is often asked.

Done. http://www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/vi ... 33&t=12540