ROCOR REFUGEES. That insidious Refugee mentality at work again

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Maria
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ROCOR REFUGEES. That insidious Refugee mentality at work again

Post by Maria »

In another thread, I discussed the Refugee Mentality that afflicts many people who convert to Orthodoxy as they seek a place of comfort away from Roman Catholic discord or away from their previous Protestant denomination.

This is exactly why those who adhere to the "ROCOR Refugees" mantra preached by Joanna have the wrong attitude. They are still running away and they still have that "refugee image" stuck in their brain. Joanna Higginbotham and her blogging friends have even admitted to me that they hope to join the ROCOR-MP in a few years, hoping beyond hope that it has changed or that it will change.

This is why they still sing in the ROCOR-MP choir whenever the bishops in the ROCOR-MP come to offer a hierarchial Divine Liturgy, and whenever the ROCOR-MP begs for extra choir members to sing at special events.

Folks, this is the Pan-Heresy of Ecumenism, and it is insidious. Yet, those in ROCOR Refugees dare to call themselves True Orthodox? No, they are not with us at all.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Barbara
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Re: ROCOR REFUGEES. That insidious Refugee mentality at work again

Post by Barbara »

Wha-a-t ?? Joanna and Minas are heading toward reunification with Rocor MP ?
The next few years is the WORST time
That's a BAD decision.

Right now, one can figure out intuitively [ for there is no outer clue to this dynamic ] that MP is going to be meaner than anything to poor Rocor. The MP will say, "OK the big to-do is over, we celebrated the 10 years of 'togetherness'. Now we are going to push you into doing things you don't want to. We are your superiors fully now. No more of this 'autonomy' silly concept. That was just for window dressing to keep Rocor people from flooding the TOCs. Now we are your masters and will tell you a list of ALL the things we need you to do, such as concelebrate with Baptists, Buddhists, etc."

These Rocor Refugees personnel are singing in the Rocor-MP Oregon parish choirs ? My gosh !!! I can't say I would blame them for attending a hierarchical Liturgy once in a long time. Everybody MISSES those beautiful traditional Russian services. Where else are they to be found ?
If one is just attending the service, one can mentally cancel out the Patriarch Kirill commemorations.
Whereas if one is singing, then he or she might have to mention the MP's leader, right ?

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Jean-Serge
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Re: ROCOR REFUGEES. That insidious Refugee mentality at work again

Post by Jean-Serge »

Barbara wrote:

Everybody MISSES those beautiful traditional Russian services. Where else are they to be found ?
If one is just attending the service, one can mentally cancel out the Patriarch Kirill commemorations.

Missing a service is not a reason for praying with heretics. Common prayer is an expression of common faith. If you have no church, you pray at home, that's all. Church is not an esthetical experimentation or experience or a concert that you are to attend, because you miss it.

Last edited by Maria on Mon 24 July 2017 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: just fixing quote tags - move along nothing important. :)

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Maria
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Re: ROCOR REFUGEES. That insidious Refugee mentality at work again

Post by Maria »

Jean-Serge wrote:
Barbara wrote:

Everybody MISSES those beautiful traditional Russian services. Where else are they to be found ?
If one is just attending the service, one can mentally cancel out the Patriarch Kirill commemorations.

Missing a service is not a reason for praying with heretics. Common prayer is an expression of common faith. If you have no church, you pray at home, that's all. Church is not an esthetical experimentation or experience or a concert that you are to attend, because you miss it.

Correct, Jean-Serge. If we pray with heretics, that makes us complicit with them because the Holy Canons state that we must never pray with heretics, and this includes our friends and relatives.

When I was visiting my mom just after my dad died, I deliberately came late to meals missing the family blessing led by my heretical non-denominational brother, who was not a minister of any church, nor a faithful member of the laity. He had become an itinerant preacher, preaching to any who would listen. At the family dinner, encouraged by my mom, he would pray, preach a homily, and then read a few passages from the bible, and preach some more. Total time for all this monkey business would be 30 minutes to an hour, and by that time, all the food would be cold anyway. Oh, yes, they would celebrate the Lord's Supper, so there was no way I could join the meal.

Anyway, I would just wait until the dust settled, walk into the dining room, grab a plate, fill it with food, say "thank you" with a smile to those who prepared it, and then leave to eat in another room. They knew that I was an Orthodox Christian, and that I could neither pray with them, nor break bread together with them. Most certainly, I did not want to stay, dissect my brother's sermon with the family, share grape juice and little cubes of bread, and say such wonderful awesome things about what had just transpired.

This should not have been strange to them because when I was 19, my parents left the Roman Catholic Church, and told me that I was being disobedient for not following their guidance in joining the heretical Church of Christ, the heretical Baptist Church, the heretical Presbyterian Church, and the local heretical Bible Chapel down the street. They wanted me to follow their lead and go from one church to another because once they had left the Roman Catholic Church, they had become heretical "Roamin" Christians. In fact they even laughed as they told me the joke, "How do you spell "ex-Catholic"? Answer, "Roamin Catholic." Something was always wrong with each Protestant Church they visited or joined. If it wasn't the preacher who could not give a decent sermon and properly "feed" them, then it was the preacher's wife with all her heavy eye make-up, fake tears, and black streaks on her face. They must have been baptized in at least four or five Protestant churches, and then promptly left while their wet hair was still drying. I tired of their gossip.

At that time, they had the gall to tell me that I was not worshipping their god! Well, at that point, I certainly did not want to worship their god, neither I was not happy with all the post-Vatican II changes in the Roman Catholic Church either, so I began my slow journey into Holy Orthodoxy. And believe it or not, my mom and dad were very happy that we (my husband and I) had finally left Catholicism for Orthodoxy, not because we had become Orthodox, but because we were no longer Roman Catholics. If we had become Protestants, they would have rejoiced even more.

And no, I will not add this to my autobiographical account of my Orthodox Christian conversion, because it might scandalize some good protestants who are looking into Holy Orthodoxy. I only mention these incidents so the reader can understand how difficult it is to avoid praying with heretics. Yet, it must be done charitably, if at all possible. For me, it was extremely difficult, because my brother, an itinerant preacher, who thought he had a direct line to God alone, would use every opportunity to condemn me and Holy Orthodoxy, and preach his heresies, which my two other brothers and one sister likewise condemned as they attended different Protestant churches. It was not a peaceful meal. Therefore, I could not partake of it.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Barbara
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Re: ROCOR REFUGEES. That insidious Refugee mentality at work again

Post by Barbara »

Thank you for writing up this vivid description of the tribulations you went through with your own family.
They sound like NIGHTMARES !

Sadly, that uncomfortable situation must prevail in many families. I believe always that the Devil uses family members to
attack the person who has bravely embarked on a path of Orthodoxy. The more strict the Orthodoxy, the more unrelenting the attacks are. This opposition is not based on ANY logic or reason. It is inspired by demons who won't give up easily.

P.S. Since I washed my hair and it is drying as I arrived at the computer, what does that expression mean that you used about your parents having left before their wet hair dried - ?!

I assume it means with alacrity.

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Re: ROCOR REFUGEES. That insidious Refugee mentality at work again

Post by Maria »

Barbara wrote:

Thank you for writing up this vivid description of the tribulations you went through with your own family.
They sound like NIGHTMARES !

Sadly, that uncomfortable situation must prevail in many families. I believe always that the Devil uses family members to
attack the person who has bravely embarked on a path of Orthodoxy. The more strict the Orthodoxy, the more unrelenting the attacks are. This opposition is not based on ANY logic or reason. It is inspired by demons who won't give up easily.

P.S. Since I washed my hair and it is drying as I arrived at the computer, what does that expression mean that you used about your parents having left before their wet hair dried - ?!

I assume it means with alacrity.

I used that expression in reference to their multiple baptisms in various Protestant churches. No sooner had their hair dried from one baptism, than they sought admission and baptism in yet another Protestant Church.

Once a baptised member, they were privy to some of the nasty fights over money, etc.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Barbara
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Re: ROCOR REFUGEES. That insidious Refugee mentality at work again

Post by Barbara »

Oh ! I thought it was an old saying that I had never happened to hear.
The hair was wet from their baptisms - but it isn't a triple immersion like more traditional sectors of Orthodoxy, right ?
But it is a full immersion ? I had no idea.
Or - does their fake 'pastor' sprinkle water on their hair and pronounce them "saved" ?

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