Questions about RTOC in America

[сынок]

It has been my observation that every RTOC here in the USA is led by a Ukrainian priest or bishop. Not that that matters to me in any significant way but, it IS called the 'Russian True Orthodox Church'. Though infrequently does he post on his web site, I do very much enjoy reading Bishop Stephan Sabelnik's letters as well as equally enjoying the streaming videos of Fr. Иоанн Trepatschko on Sunday mornings!
Can someone enlighten me?

[Barbara]

Lovely to see you back, Sinok. I was wondering where you were !
Glad to see that you are still looking at RTOC videos and material.

I too wish that Bishop Stefan would write more and put on the website for all of our education & edification.
He is a great thinker.

I am not sure from where his family originated. Southern Russia I suppose. Or is it Ukraine, which is why you mentioned this?

Please keep commenting here. You are very welcome.

[joasia]

Sinok,

You need to get passed the nationalism and look at the Orthodox faith. Those Ukrainian bishops and priest that serve under RTOC are still identifying themselves with the Russian Church (RTOC, not MP) because the main Synod of the Orthodox faith with the Slavs is based with Russia. The Ukraine had always been part of the grand country of Russia until the servants of the evil one created this division in the 1960's. This is a battle against Holy Rus.

Most of the Ukraine are Uniates and they commemorate the Pope. So, these clergy that are Ukrainian and serve in the "Russian Church" are really living in the faith of the Russian Orthodox Church which is the true faith of Orthodoxy of the Slavs. You should be embracing them as brothers because they uphold the tradition of the Orthodox faith of Russia which is Holy Rus.

When it comes down to it, there is no country that monopolizes the Orthodox faith. Orthodoxy is not a country. It's just that we are limited to geographical locations that need to be identified by Synod jurisdictions. But, the fact is that Orthodoxy transcends all countries.

Do you understand? It's not about nationalism. It's about faith.

[сынок]

Thank you Barbara and joasia for your time and comments.
I almost completely understand .

However; let me ask it then this way ... where are all the Russian folks here on the eastern shores of USA and, the Windsor through Toronto to Montreal corridor of Canada? Why can't RTOC entice them to join RTOC instead of entire parishes (like the one in Toronto a couple years ago)shifting over to the Agafangel ROCA group?? It's not like there are only a few of them.
Most were with ROCA (as my family and I were) and/or ROCOR pre-2007. Am I wrong? Where are all the 'Tikonites' / 'Josephites' catacombnics and why are they not demanding a stronger RTOC presence? Could it be because all the parents are gone now and the kids don't have time to learn a bit of the history? Could it simply be western convenience?
I have no problem with Ukrainians running the show here ... it is just a legitimate curiosity.

Here's a good one. I can't even get an answer out of a Muscovite friend of mine living in Moscow. I can hardly wait until he visits again. Neither he nor his wife will discus it by email or telephone. We have the NSA ... they have Putin and the boys. Isn't it 2015?? Oh well, some things just never change.

[Barbara]

Yeah, that's really true, isn't it about the dangers on both sides of calling by phone or writing emails which may one day be looked at. It's doubtful anyone is checking in the sense of reading every word. But to think that they go into some storage system that can be accessed at the whim of some Big Brother / Veliky Bradar [?] is very disconcerting.
Why is it that people can't speak normally without feeling that someone may be listening in or looking over one's writing some day ??

Well what were you asking your friend, Sinok ? Was it about this observation about RTOC ?

I am sorry that we would lose any parish. I think it's good that you pointed out this possible factor as a reason.
But Agafangel's synod is highly sympathetic to Ukraine itself. Remember the dissenting parties felt that Russians were being slighted by the ROCA hierarchs ?
So there must be other reasons, really, for that switchover.

I believe RTOC must take stock of the current situation and figure out ways to attract back former Rocor members who have drifted aimlessly as well as pull in new members.
Also to find ways to appeal to the Westernized younger generations descended from anti-Communist White Russian emigres.
Good point about the Catacombniks. One would assume they would feel most at home with RTOC. Though some are apparently with the GOC-Stephanos for lack of nearby Russian TOC parishes / leadership.

[Maria]

Please be careful not to get into the polemics between ROCOR-A (ROCA) and the RTOC.

If anyone needs access to the Intra-TOC Polemics private forum, please PM me

Maria
Admin

[сынок]

Why is it that people can't speak normally without feeling that someone may be listening in or looking over one's writing some day ??
Well what were you asking your friend, Sinok ? Was it about this observation about RTOC ?
I am sorry that we would lose any parish. I think it's good that you pointed out this possible factor as a reason.
I believe RTOC must take stock of the current situation and figure out ways to attract back former Rocor members who have drifted aimlessly as well as pull in new members.
Also to find ways to appeal to the Westernized younger generations descended from anti-Communist White Russian emigres.
Good point about the Catacombniks. One would assume they would feel most at home with RTOC. Though some are apparently with the GOC-Stephanos for lack of nearby Russian TOC parishes / leadership.

Yes .. observation about RTOC.

The R.O. parish who went to ROCOR-A were ROCOR-MP. Doesn't matter who they were first .. they still went to the other organization. That must mean that there was solicitation or something. This leaves me wondering why RTOC was not the choice. RTOC must make their presence known! Maria, I don't believe this comment is out of line as I am NOT slamming anyone or any group. Let me know if I am crossing the line. Here is the story:
http://nftu.net/rocor-mp-parish-in-toro ... s-rocor-a/
And, I just found out, an elderly family friend also left his ROCOR-MP church (a different one than the one in the article) for ROCOR-A. Since discovering this, it dawned on me that since there are ROCOR-A parishes in Toronto, this transition was easily made ( he lives in Toronto).

One of the absolutely BEST books on Russian Orthodox history, which delves deeply into Tikonites and Josephites and most Catacomb organizations is a difficult to find (possibly obsolete) book by William C. Fletcher titled The Russian Orthodox Church Underground 1917-1970. It has taught me more about my Russian Orthodox history than dozens of other books I have read since my self-imposed resurrection. I found it on Amazon.com. It is both horrifying and enlightening.

BTW .. my Russian friends in Moscow have told me many times - face to face - that there is nothing wrong with V.Putin and they would 'vote' for him again. All the negativity is brought on by Western propaganda. He simply wants to make Russia great again and will not be pushed around. Does the West listen to anyone else??? Yes, society is 'tighter' over there, they say, and to them - that is a good thing. They love America very much and come here every year to vacation. Their observation is that America would be Utopia if a few freedoms we had were controlled 'just a bit'.