Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

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searn77
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Re: Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

Post by searn77 »

Lydia wrote:
Maria wrote:

I have moved this thread into World Orthodoxy, since James' post mentions the OCA.

Not only the OCA, but also GOARCH and the Antiochians allow for interfaith marriages as long as the non-Orthodox but heterodox spouse is a believing Christian whether Protestant or Catholic. I do not know the policy of the Serbians, ROCOR, and MP, who are on the Old-Calendar, but who are World Orthodox due to their communion with ecumenists, especially the EP and the MP. I do not understand the logic of the WO who say that non-Orthodox heterodox spouses cannot receive the "Holy Mysteries" of confession, chrismation, communion, unction, and funerals, but they can receive Holy Crowning. It does not make sense.

In True Orthodoxy, couples both must be True Orthodox Christians as the Crowning ceremony is recognized as a Holy Mystery because Christ-God unites them in marriage.

I know that after the Second World War, when Russians were scattered throughout the world, The Metropolia and ROCOR would marry Orthodox to Heterodox spouses rather than letting their sons and daughters fall into sin by denying it. This was the decision of the Bishops at the time. What I do know from my own experience is that virtually all of the heterodox spouses eventually converted and, in most cases, became even more pious than the Orthodox spouse.
I have come to understand that True Bishops are guided in their decisions by The Holy Spirit, even though these decisions seem contrary to the canons of The Holy Church. As I said, in my experience many Roman Catholics and Protestants have been united to The Orthodox Church by marriage.

That's an interesting point that you bring up. A bishop can apply economia to a situation that he believes will ultimately result in the glory of God. It must be understood though that economia (in this case, marrying an Orthodox Christian with a non-Orthodox Christian) should be an exception to the rule, under the guidance of a bishop being led by the Holy Spirit. Marrying Orthodox & non-Orthodox shouldn't become the norm since an Orthodox marriage is a divine mystery that God has intended for the faithful in His Church.

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Barbara
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Re: Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

Post by Barbara »

A good contribution from Lydia. I didn't realize there were so many marriages between the Russian emigres and
the heterodox in that era.
I can imagine now, or let's say, in recent few decades. But even back then ?
Fascinating that so many of the spouses DID convert and become more pious !
An interesting part of the history of the Russians abroad which is not ever mentioned. I would like to know more about
how this all worked.

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Re: Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

Post by Jean-Serge »

liefern wrote:

What should the Church actually do, do you think? What's the pastoral answer? Just consider an area temporarily lost and start again with monastic settlements and evangelization by example?

Once again, the life in church is not about sociological considerations but theological ones. Pastoral answers are now a simple pretext to forget theological foundation. To give an example, in Lebanon, an orthodox metropolitan clearly stated that he gives the communion to the non orthodox husband or wife for pastoral reasons. Where do you put the limit to pastoral reason and economy?

Isaac and Abraham lived in an area with few believers. So did Jacob and Esau. Esau chose to marry non believing ladies, Jacob did not. The first christians were also quite isolated, as a minority but they did not perfor mixed wedding. A proof of this was that the religious wedding was sealed by the common communion of both, which was impossible if one of them was a non christian. So, even the sociological objection does not hold at all.

First pastorally, the church should told pre-teenagers and teenagers what is the meaning of marriage, so that when they reach adulthood, they are prepared nd aware that it is not simply a sentimental thing, or the way to legalize sexual intimacy. People could wait to reach an agreement about their faith before getting married, which would be wiser. If they still want to do a mixed marriage, they have a civil wedding for this. At least, this would not ruin the image of the church wedding. Strictly speaking, an orthodow who married a non orthodox should not be allowed to commune until the marriage is dissolved, but only to take antidoron (see Manual of Confession by Saint Nikodemos).

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Jean-Serge
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Re: Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

Post by Jean-Serge »

Lydia wrote:

What I do know from my own experience is that virtually all of the heterodox spouses eventually converted and, in most cases, became even more pious than the Orthodox spouse. I have come to understand that True Bishops are guided in their decisions by The Holy Spirit, even though these decisions seem contrary to the canons of The Holy Church. As I said, in my experience many Roman Catholics and Protestants have been united to The Orthodox Church by marriage.

How many succesful cases do you know? Because, it would be interesting to look into the acts of the parish to see the number of these marriages and the outcome. Since you are orthodox, you will know the succesful cases but not the other ones, simply because these are persons that no longer came to church or left the church. Just a remark, one is nver united to the church by marriage, but by baptism.

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liefern
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Re: Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

Post by liefern »

It's a very important question, pastoral concerns vs. strictness. One idea is that people should pray for spouses to appear. The right people might convert, and then be Orthodox!

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Re: Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

Post by Jean-Serge »

You are right Liefern: but pastoral concern is not in opposition to strictness. For pastoral reasons, you can be strict too. Nowadays, pastoral equals laxism. Read old canons and you see that different persons were deprived for communion for long periods and these were also pastoral reasons... People are lax in the faith, that's all, and many churches make adaptation to keep their faithfuls as members. But does this lead them to salvation or damnation along with infecting other members seeing that people remain in good standing without repentance?

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Re: Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

Post by Barbara »

Thank you all for the edifying comments, especially Jean-Serge's above.
That helps me to see what's really happening out there.

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