The correct way to make the Sign of the Cross

[Maria]

In another thread, there is a discussion of the correct way to make the Sign of the Cross.

Having been taught how to make the Sign of the Cross in two traditions (Russian and Greek), I vacillate between both traditions.

The Greek way, to bow down, touch the ground, and then make the Sign of the Cross while rising, was taught to me by Greek Orthodox Priests. As one rises, the Sign of the Cross is made over the entire body, blessing it in service of the Lord.

The Russian way seems to be: bow down, touch the ground, stiffen up straight, then make the Sign of the Cross. Repeat three times quickly in succession.

[Matthew]

The second way (Russian) seems to be the correct way to do it. The Greeks are not famous for doing their crosses properly. Metr. Jonah (Paffhausen) used to hate it when people in church would do the "Greek" style of tiny crosses over the chest only. He said that rather than looking like they are making the solemn and serious worshipful sign of the Cross, they instead look like they are winding spaghetti on their fork. He straightly charged people to make the cross full size (forehead to belly, shoulder to shoulder). I agree with his analysis of the lazy and careless appearance (not necessarily the inner intent of the heart) of the Greek fashion of tiny, shy, and hastily-made, wound-up chest crosses.

Sorry if that offends any of you, but that is just my straight up opinion on it.

Symeon

[Maria]

The second way (Russian) seems to be the correct way to do it. The Greeks are not famous for doing their crosses properly. Metr. Jonah (Paffhausen) used to hate it when people in church would do the "Greek" style of tiny crosses over the chest only. He said that rather than looking like they are making the solemn and serious worshipful sign of the Cross, they instead look like they are winding spaghetti on their fork. He straightly charged people to make the cross full size (forehead to belly, shoulder to shoulder). I agree with his analysis of the lazy and careless appearance (not necessarily the inner intent of the heart) of the Greek fashion of tiny, shy, and hastily-made, wound-up chest crosses.

Sorry if that offends any of you, but that is just my straight up opinion on it.

Symeon

The Greek Priests who instructed me told me to make the Sign of the Cross BOLDLY: From forehead to belly and from right shoulder to left shoulder otherwise I would only be chasing flies away. I have seen many Russians chase insects away, so it is not just an ethnic thing, but borne from laziness.

Roman Catholics tend to make the Sign of the Cross with the tips of their fingers (index, middle, and ring fingers) from forehead to upper chest and then from the left chest adjacent to the shoulder to the right chest adjacent to the shoulder. I have seen many Orthodox Christians make the same as the Roman Catholics with the exception that it was right to left instead of left to right, and done with the correct fingering (thumb, index and middle fingers forming a point and the remaining two fingers folded down).

[StephenS]

I used to think we had a number of people in church with some sort of itch problem, until the penny dropped and I realised this was a micro sign of the cross at mid chest. Contrasts with the very demonstrative and Russian signing.

[Barbara]

Funny !

I agree, a confident and devout FULL Sign of the Cross is essential. It is not a minor matter.
Tepid Signs of the Cross bespeak a lukewarm faith, likely ?

I had NO IDEA whatsoever that the Greeks have a different pattern!

I am probably not the only one.
Therefore, this is a most educational thread.
Thank you Maria for bringing up the topic, and Icxypion and Stephen for putting in helpful remarks.

[Maria]

Funny !

I agree, a confident and devout FULL Sign of the Cross is essential. It is not a minor matter.
Tepid Signs of the Cross bespeak a lukewarm faith, likely ?

I had NO IDEA whatsoever that the Greeks have a different pattern!

I am probably not the only one.
Therefore, this is a most educational thread.
Thank you Maria for bringing up the topic, and Icxypion and Stephen for putting in helpful remarks.

One can go overboard here too and fail.

There was this overweight woman who attended an OCA church. She had a serious mental problem probably OCD. She would turn around to face the congregation during Vespers or the Divine Liturgy to demonstrate how to make the Sign of the Cross correctly. It was annoying to say the least as sometimes people nearby her were slapped as she made this enormous Sign of the Cross.

[joasia]

In another thread, there is a discussion of the correct way to make the Sign of the Cross.

Having been taught how to make the Sign of the Cross in two traditions (Russian and Greek), I vacillate between both traditions.

The Greek way, to bow down, touch the ground, and then make the Sign of the Cross while rising, was taught to me by Greek Orthodox Priests. As one rises, the Sign of the Cross is made over the entire body, blessing it in service of the Lord.

The Russian way seems to be: bow down, touch the ground, stiffen up straight, then make the Sign of the Cross. Repeat three times quickly in succession.

I've only seen that it was always cross first, touch ground after or half bow. Also, with a prostration, it is always cross first, then prostrate. What I do see is that Greeks/Russians touch the ground first, cross themselves (in an upright position) and then kiss the Holy Cross, at the end of Liturgy. That's the only time I see the ground first and crossing after. But, it should always be upright (not necessarily stiff).

But, when it is for the feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross or Big Friday, for example, it's still cross first and prostrate after. This done twice, then venerate, then cross and prostrate once afterwards. This is also done for veneration of icons and relics.

And it should never be done quickly. Who advised doing it quickly? Three times depends on the occasion.

I checked my Jordanville prayer book and in the section: How One Should Pray In Church, it is described as cross first, bow after. There is also a quote from St. John Chrysostom: The demons rejoice at these mad gestures."

The reference is to the following comment: Of those who sign themselves with all five fingers, or who bow before finishing the Cross, or simply wave their hand in the air or before their breast...

Also, it is instructed: On the other hand, the sign of the Cross, properly made with faith and reverence, terrifies the demons, calms sinful passions and calls down divine grace.