What is Wrong With Cyprianism?

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Anastasios
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Re: Archbishop Gregory of Denver and Colorado

Post by Anastasios »

GOCTheophan wrote:
drewmeister2 wrote:
GOCTheophan wrote:

One has to admire the work he is doing in Africa.

Theophan.

Also were these people suspended for reasons of the Faith (you only have to read up about the 7 th Ecumenical Council and the 15 th canon of the 1 st and 2 nd council of Constaninople to know that Kyprianism is just plain unPatristic)?

Adultery and theft. And I will believe Bishop Ambrose over Gregory any day. I admire Bishop Ambrose's work in Africa even if I disagree with their ecclesiology. I agree that we should be in Africa and elsewhere doing missionary work though too. It's a shame we are not but things seem to be slowly turning around.

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GOCTheophan
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Re: Archbishop Gregory of Denver and Colorado

Post by GOCTheophan »

Anastasios wrote:

Adultery and theft. And I will believe Bishop Ambrose over Gregory any day. I admire Bishop Ambrose's work in Africa even if I disagree with their ecclesiology. I agree that we should be in Africa and elsewhere doing missionary work though too. It's a shame we are not but things seem to be slowly turning around.

Okay.

Bishop Ambrose is someone I have heard good things about and is supposed to be very upright, which well Dormition Skete in many ways just isnt. The fact remains that he is with the Kyprianites and friendly with a certain internet tabloid blogger who is being used by them to attack the Greek Orthodox Church.

The other question is- is Kyprianism a heresy in the strict sense of the word? Yes they are dangerous schismatics with a lot of (Freemasonic?) money from God knows who, but are they actually heretics?

And if they are did ROCOR fall away in 1994 as I believe Cyprian and Fr Mark confess (if I am wrong about that I hope they will forgive me) along with Nicholas Candela and Archbishop Gregory himself?

Theophan.

StephenG
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Post by StephenG »

Theophan,

You make a very serious allegation, that is Masonic funding of Kyprianite activity. Anyone, as you know, may make allegations about absolutely anyone or anything. Have you any proof?

A wanderer, trying to discern truth from falsehood

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Cyprian
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Post by Cyprian »

The other question is- is Kyprianism a heresy in the strict sense of the word? Yes they are dangerous schismatics with a lot of (Freemasonic?) money from God knows who, but are they actually heretics?

Dear Theophan,

Before you can be convinced that Kyprianism is a heresy, you must first tell us what evidence you are prepared to accept. First tell us what constitutes a heresy, as understood by the Church, and only then will it be possible to demonstrate to your satisfaction that the synod of Kyprianos is heretical.

Also, you were not entirely clear as to what you meant by "Kyprianism". Some would take "Kyprianism" to mean their unorthodox teaching regarding heretics who have yet to be condemned by an Oecumenical Council remaining members of the Church, with valid orders, able to administer the holy mysteries of the Church.

However, at the end of your statement, you refer to the synod itself, asking if they are heretical.

Drawing a distinction between the two is important, because some consider them heretics in more ways than one.

For example, two of their so-called bishops openly (in an official print publication of theirs, called Orthodox Tradition) promote the demonic and diabolical Harry Potter books. One would assume that silent assent on the part of the other "bishops" of the synod constitutes tacit approval of this promotion of witchcraft and sorcery.

There is a Kyprianite reader by the name of John Granger who publishes books promoting Harry Potter and the occult, with the sanction of his bishop.

Others have accused Kyprianos of preaching the heresy of chiliasm, although I must confess I am not privy to the details of these accusations.

So please inform us first as to what you are willing to accept as constituting heresy by this synod.

Cyprian

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GOCTheophan
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Post by GOCTheophan »

StephenG wrote:

Theophan,

You make a very serious allegation, that is Masonic funding of Kyprianite activity. Anyone, as you know, may make allegations about absolutely anyone or anything. Have you any proof?

Stephen if you read carefully havent actually said that there is, I just said it is a possibility. A Matthewite Hieromonk told me that was indeed the case.

They are the smallest of the Old Calendarist groups yet they have the greatest funds and are the only ones not to suffer persectuation at the hands of the State. The more you look at them the more things just dont add up or add up to something quite sinister.

Theophan.

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GOCTheophan
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Post by GOCTheophan »

Dear Cyprian,

The question is this-

  1. Did the Romanian Old Calendarists who have an Orthodox ecclesiolgy fall away from the Church by going into Communion with Kyprianos' sect?

2.Did ROCOR fall away from the Church by entering in Communion with them, and even stating that they shared the same ecclesiolgy?

3.Is the belief that heretics have Grace until condemned by an Ecumenical council actually heresy or grave error? Certainly I find it hard to imagine that the Kyprianite Bishops do not know the truth that this is an idea that is historically indefensable and are not deliberately misleading their flock, but is it an actual heresy in the way that the idea that Grace is created is?

  1. Has there been a synodal condemnation of Chilasism?

I would like to hear as many views as are around on this question.

Theophan.

StephenG
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Post by StephenG »

Theophan,

So you're speculating? Have you visited any of their communities and seen the support they have?

I have been, and stayed, with their community at Fili, which enjoys a large support base judging by the number of worshippers in the week and at weekends. And by contrast their poor community on Tinos. Having visited and stayed at both I found nothing sinister.

What is confusing is any attempt to come to terms with the comings and goings of the whole Old Calendarist movement in Greece.

A wanderer, trying to discern truth from falsehood

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