Ok, well, I guess we can continue here @Jean-Serge
Jean-Serge wrote: ↑Tue 27 February 2024 5:41 pmAs far as I know the Ukrainian UAOC has bishops with the Moscow Patriarchate as origin. Am I mistaken ? From what I know, they were not true orthodox at all and ecumenistic, like many Ukrainian groups, since the nationality is more important than the faith.
It seems to me that the Milan Synod claimed having received autocephaly from Archbishop Auxentios but provided a dubious document very late. Moreover, only the synod and not the Archbishop alone could grant autocephaly. I see this requires a full Milan Synod thread in fact.
I am not going to justify the short-lived (two years) union with the confused and divided UAOC, though I will say Patriarch Volodymyr was a respected hierarch who had renounced Soviet citizenship in 1976 and was likely poisoned to death. I assumed the union was not solely with the Milan Synod, as I am fairly certain Abp Maximos was also in favor of the union to my recollection. (I could be wrong here, but I am fairly certain I'm not.)
The claim of the dating of the Tomos is silly; it was before 1985, so of course it bothers people as it cannot be disputed that it was before the trial of Abp Auxentios of blessed memory. It was publicly issued, was a Tomos of Autonomy (not autocephaly) and was not only not dubious but no less than Metropolitan Moses of Toronto correctly noted that it was a proper form for a Tomos (while denying that the Tomos had any legal weight for obvious reasons.)
I am more than happy to discuss in a Milan Synod thread. As someone who chronicled and watched the whole thing implode from the inside, our people know more about the actual history of what happened than pretty much anyone else in True Orthodoxy. Because of the fact that we dealt with and lived through that history, I would love nothing more than to clear up all these issues in public. Even last year there was yet another false set of claims about Metropolitan Evloghios, rehashed from the 90's. It's absolutely infuriating to watch.