Do the Canons Say Nothing About Laymen & Shaving Beards Off?

[jgress]

These days, with so many people out of work, maybe there will be a = pardon the expression -
renaissance of this beard=wearing style amongst serious Orthodox Christians.

If there is no demand from an employer to appear a certain way, then maybe those who
are thinking to get away from cities and even live a more desert-type of life could
feel free to wear beards and feel proud of that.

Interesting topic, comment.
Remarkable research, Icxpion !

I imagine before then all the unemployed, bearded Orthodox will have died of starvation, since "he who does not work shall not eat". Unless perhaps God miraculously feeds them with manna from heaven.

Sorry for my sarcasm, but I really think that the anathematization of beard-shaving and trimming by the Stoglav council is of no more than historical interest. Aren't there more important matters for us to think about these days? Dragging these ancient strictures out of the depths of the past smacks more of Old Ritualism than Orthodoxy to me.

[Maria]

These days, with so many people out of work, maybe there will be a = pardon the expression -
renaissance of this beard=wearing style amongst serious Orthodox Christians.

If there is no demand from an employer to appear a certain way, then maybe those who
are thinking to get away from cities and even live a more desert-type of life could
feel free to wear beards and feel proud of that.

Interesting topic, comment.
Remarkable research, Icxpion !

I imagine before then all the unemployed, bearded Orthodox will have died of starvation, since "he who does not work shall not eat". Unless perhaps God miraculously feeds them with manna from heaven.

Sorry for my sarcasm, but I really think that the anathematization of beard-shaving and trimming by the Stoglav council is of no more than historical interest. Aren't there more important matters for us to think about these days? Dragging these ancient strictures out of the depths of the past smacks more of Old Ritualism than Orthodoxy to me.

Pretty soon, someone will find a Council decision that says that we should walk and not rely on beast or (heaven forbid) some kind of auto or vehicle, or that we should live close enough to a church to walk only a block or two.

Yes, I see your point, Jonathan. We can easily go to extremes and become Onion Dome Orthodox under Father Vassily. Is Outrage!

[Matthew]

Hi Jonathan. Thank you for your ideas. This post was a much stronger, even different position, than the much more well-researched, nuanced and mainstream Orthodox position in the other thread here:

http://www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/vi ... f=4&t=9548

I think you will have a much different opinion by reading the one linked in this post. BTW, not to discredit the research of NEW ADVENT, I go there myself for info. But we should keep in mind that they are Roman Catholics. And the shaving of beards WAS one of the points both listed in the Schism of 1054, and St Mark of Ephesus brought it up as well.

Not discounting what you said, just saying it might be worth thinking this all through a bit more.

Symeon

[jgress]

I take your point about the beards. In a more pious age, being strict about such externals made more sense. I think today, however, one shouldn't attempt such strictness, let alone advocate it for others, without proper spiritual direction or spiritual authority.

It's good to know that the issue of beards was one pretext for severing communion; I was not aware of that. But it seems that it should be taken in the context of all the theological problems and heresies that the West had espoused. If the West had remained completely Orthodox, and the only thing they did wrong was shave, I imagine there wouldn't have been a schism.

I think we can certainly admire the piety of the pre-Nikonian Russians; it was something that astounded even other Orthodox (e.g. Paul of Aleppo's accounts; he was an Archdeacon in the Antiochian Patriarchate, no less). But it seems disproportionate to advocate, e.g. not shaving for Orthodox laymen today. I look at pictures of the Old Calendarist lay faithful, at the times they were being persecuted for the faith. None of them were wearing full beards, unless they were priests or monks; rather, as has been customary in Greece for centuries now, they wore moustaches with shaven chins. Some of them were even clean-shaven. I don't think one could accuse them of betraying the faith by not wearing full beards.

[Matthew]

Agreed, Jonathan. I also note that the spotless man of God, Photis Kontoglou, was shaven. Also, Icons of St Justin the Emperor, shows him beardless (actually a 5 o'clock shadow beard, but I think it fair to call that shaven). And that icon is 5th or 6th Century.

[Maria]

Please view the thread below to discuss a side topic: Are self-discipline and orderliness considered virtues?

http://www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/vi ... f=4&t=9776

[Matthew]

Maria, are you a moderator now? If so, may God bless you in this worthy endeavour.
Symeon

PS. What has happened to Jonathan? He seems to have disappeared without a word, unless I simply have missed his posts where he says goodbye.