I will never read Br. Nathanael's blogs again.

[The Prodigal Son]

Hi again Catherine5,

I feel bad that you were kicked off a site - it shows how the World Orthodox have slid so far into compromise that you cannot say the obvious truth."

I wasn't kicked off... but I was bombarded w/ accusations of 'anti-Semitism'. They are steeped in Pharisaic propaganda.

It's possible that Nathanael sees a Zionist under every tree where they may be under only every two trees, especially if one includes the Trilateral, etc people.
The point is: he's TRYING to bring out the truth."

Well - he knows 'Jews'! He was born and raised in their synagogues. He understands the reality that behind the Trilateral Commissions, Masons, etc - there is to be found 'Jewish' agendas and money power.

What keeps me at a distance from it is that he never gave up that defense of Putin and Russia which was so distracting on his livejournal site. He got to the point of a hero cult for Putin, you all remember if you were there then.
He sees Putin as almost a savior for Orthodoxy. But if THAT were true: then why never a word against Zionists -- for example the recent flotilla incident -- from anybody over there? Not a peep that I have yet seen."

There is in Russia Orthodox Christianity taught in the public schools... Putin has done this! It seems to me that he is attempting to imitate old Byzantium by promoting not separation of Church and State - but rather a symphony of Church and State. I say bravo!

This Wikipedia page lists reactions to the Gaza flotilla raid by nation... Under Russia we see:

President Dmitry Medvedev called for a thorough investigation of the incident and said that, in any case, the deaths of people are irreversible.

Prime Minister Vladimir Putin condemned the assault and expressed concern that it was conducted in international waters.. On June 8, Putin condemned the acts and said it has to be investigated specially, especially since it was on international waters.

The Foreign Ministries of Russia and the EU adopted a joint statement concerning the flotilla attack, which correlates with the UN Security Council activity in the situation.

Russia's Foreign Ministry expressed 'condemnation and profound concern' over the incident and called for a full investigation. It also called the use of 'use of arms against civilians and the detention of the vessels on the high seas without any legal grounds constitute a gross violation of generally accepted international legal norms.'

The head of the Russian State Duma Foreign Affairs Committee, Konstantin Kosachev, called for an 'urgent meeting' of the Middle East Quartet to discuss the incident."

You wrote:

Did you say he is saying he's under ROCOR-MP now? That's really amazing. Maybe it's a rumor floating around."

I have had very limited e-mail correspondance w/ Mr. Kapner and he signed as "Brother Nathanael, ROCOR"...

What I would like to know is this: Is he really a monk?

[The Prodigal Son]

Hi again Catherine5,

I feel bad that you were kicked off a site - it shows how the World Orthodox have slid so far into compromise that you cannot say the obvious truth."

I wasn't kicked off... but I was bombarded w/ accusations of 'anti-Semitism'. They are steeped in Pharisaic propaganda.

It's possible that Nathanael sees a Zionist under every tree where they may be under only every two trees, especially if one includes the Trilateral, etc people.
The point is: he's TRYING to bring out the truth."

Well - he knows 'Jews'! He was born and raised in their synagogues. He understands the reality that behind the Trilateral Commissions, Masons, etc - there is to be found 'Jewish' agendas and money power.

What keeps me at a distance from it is that he never gave up that defense of Putin and Russia which was so distracting on his livejournal site. He got to the point of a hero cult for Putin, you all remember if you were there then.
He sees Putin as almost a savior for Orthodoxy. But if THAT were true: then why never a word against Zionists -- for example the recent flotilla incident -- from anybody over there? Not a peep that I have yet seen."

There is in Russia Orthodox Christianity taught in the public schools... Putin has done this! It seems to me that he is attempting to imitate old Byzantium by promoting not separation of Church and State - but rather a symphony of Church and State. I say bravo!

This Wikipedia page lists reactions to the Gaza flotilla raid by nation... Under Russia we see:

President Dmitry Medvedev called for a thorough investigation of the incident and said that, in any case, the deaths of people are irreversible.

Prime Minister Vladimir Putin condemned the assault and expressed concern that it was conducted in international waters.. On June 8, Putin condemned the acts and said it has to be investigated specially, especially since it was on international waters.

The Foreign Ministries of Russia and the EU adopted a joint statement concerning the flotilla attack, which correlates with the UN Security Council activity in the situation.

Russia's Foreign Ministry expressed 'condemnation and profound concern' over the incident and called for a full investigation. It also called the use of 'use of arms against civilians and the detention of the vessels on the high seas without any legal grounds constitute a gross violation of generally accepted international legal norms.'

The head of the Russian State Duma Foreign Affairs Committee, Konstantin Kosachev, called for an 'urgent meeting' of the Middle East Quartet to discuss the incident."

You wrote:

Did you say he is saying he's under ROCOR-MP now? That's really amazing. Maybe it's a rumor floating around."

I have had very limited e-mail correspondance w/ Mr. Kapner and he signed as "Brother Nathanael, ROCOR"...

What I would like to know is this: Is he really a monk?

[Catherine5]

Interesting comments, ....shall I nickname you Prod? That sounds mean. I already made up Prav so it would rhyme. I always dislike that name Joshua - no offense, but Mormons that I live surrounded by name every other boy Josh, or Jeremy/Jeremiah. All the Old Testament names. I heard someone say to a little boy the night before Father's Day "Abram, come here" - such a serious name for a tot! The girls are all Rebecca, Caitlyn or Amber. The last sounds a little exotic, like St Petersburg, Russia's famed Amber Room. I doubt that's what inspired it. More of a folksy, home-grown name popular here.

First of all, I'm glad the Russian gov. DID react. As I never cease repeating, one could not read this in the mainstream American news
However, there were not and continue to be no TEETH in the statements. Just blanket condemnations with no reprisals - such as cutting off diplomatic relations with the nasty israel. OR condemnations of the Zionist lobby's influence in America. Why are EU and - especially - RU so silent and seemingly compliant, one wonders?

I wish they would display much more spark and backbone. If everyone really got together and stood up, American policymakers would have to back down. But no one ever does, THAT's what I wonder about most...

I speculate as to the factors behind the paper tiger type approach indulged in by almost everyone. Growl for the moment, perhaps even in pretended outrage. Then, back to business as usual...

Prompted by your posts, I read through one RZN day's comments. I think Lynda -- one of the sharpest on there, though she goes overboard sometimes-- pointed out that it was only Russia Today that ran a retrospective story on the attack on the USS Liberty. It was an American Navy ship, yet there is total blackout on that, because as we know, decisions reached up to the highest levels of the US govt. I didn't watch the clip; I've already seen many documentaries, and I had studied this event 20 years ago.

Russia Today should not be our source of information! Yet their coverage of Middle East is better, at least the few interviews I've seen. I don't check it unless there's something relevant for me that I happen to find out about. Though a little rough at the edges, I do appreciate that RT as they renamed the station, is trying to present other sides than the American Standard Line, which is a thoroughly obnoxious one to almost all the rest of the world ! But the US acts like nobody exists except their own power elite and its goals. Who cares what anybody else, weak or strong, thinks of America ? That's how brazen they are, these Trilateralists, Zionists, and most of the US government and elites ! The smug arrogance and narcissistic approach is FAR, FAR more destructive and objectionable than the worst Roman Emperor in my opinion!

About the monk, well, that's fascinating that Brother Nathanael identified himself as ROCOR -! Did you write back and ask for details? Maybe he would brush them off. Hmmm he's in Colorado, so he would be theoretically in the Denver parish. Wonder if he has ever shown up there for Confession or even to attend a Liturgy -?!? There were rumors several years ago he made a phantom visit to a Vigil in Abp Alypy's Chicago parish - wearing white tennis shoes, allegedly!

What do you think of his new Foundation plan? Any merit? Would you support it yourself, Prodigal - for lack of a better name ? I suspect he spends more time fundraising than any monkly activities, myself. Well that's his business, I guess.

[jgress]

Joshua is the Hebrew for Jesus. Just saying.

[Catherine5]

I was referring to the Old Testament one, as in the Book of Joshua.
No offense to this guy no matter WHICH one, however!
He's so much more pleasant than one or two posting recently, it's refreshing to talk about other topics than having my IP address exposed to the world...a very malicious thing, speaking of which.
I went to a computer hospital right now, and asked about the danger of that. The technician informed me that it's really deadly to have an IP open for the all world to see. I got an immediate attack that very next day but who knows what are the insidious affects longer-term?

Which reinforces my statement earlier that "I will never read X.S.'s blog again" - to paraphrase the title of this thread.
That immediate action on her part was what tipped me off that something is severely amiss over there. It was not casual "research" done later as claimed.
Then the comrade repeated it over here just in case any one had neglected to read his earlier links and thus missed such a sensitive bit of information.
The whole operation over there to me is shabby.

So much so that I had begun to wonder whether there is some Soviet influence going on to destroy the reputations of those who have written a lot about touchy subjects.
I don't really believe they have a Soviet front going, but it is always smart to consider every angle. That amount of personal attack was too extreme.

Though I don't think it's remotely likely here, I wouldn't completely rule out such a scenario as the Trest and Syndikat deceptive movements started back among the Anti-Soviet emigres in Europe which turned out to be completely run and operated by the Bolsheviks themselves.
Anyone can SAY anything to lure others into trusting them; but it's when actions betray some other ways that one has to take a step back and wonder.

If I were an investigative reporter, which I am not, I would wonder where the NFTU gets its money. That's the first question a professional would ask.
It's not my business, I am not an invasive type the way that certain people over there are.

By contrast, we can see that Brother Nathanael is working for the side of Light. He brings truth - not pleasant but necessary.
Most critically, HE doesn't send out malicious energies to harm people. I couldn't even read any word that she wrote because of palpable cracklings of almost a witchy energy as soon as my eye tried to look at even a single word.

Furthermore, it's clear that Nathanael's blog depends on free will donations. Most, I remember, he freely acknowledged, were sent by Catholic Americans. Surprise, surprise!
He said somewhere that Hispanic Catholic police and officials were by far the friendliest to him when he would stand in public holding out his Russian Orthodox style cross. Other police officers would glower at him - and much worse.

But there is no such even-handedness over at NFTU. They could have the best news in the world, but I would not care to read it as the source is blemished by such vindictive behavior.

I want to give Brother N. the credit he deserves and make this sharp comparison all the clearer. HE actually accomplishes something which is unique and educational, rather than stooping to throw mud with barbed darts in it at me. Had I written "Viva Stalin" - she barely would have minded. Jason Bentley was posting all sorts of strongly pro-MP statements - they didn't expose his IP, but posted them for a long time. So, the whole NFTU blog is too dangerous.
Better to stay away, I would say, seeing fully now how vicious a deed that was.

I can learn more in a few minutes from RZN - though I don't have time for much of it - than from many months of glancing at NFTU> which became a whirlwind of destructive energy. My opinion, only. But I ask people to question why anyone would do such a thing.

[Suaidan]

Which reinforces my statement earlier that "I will never read X.S.'s blog again" - to paraphrase the title of this thread.
That immediate action on her part was what tipped me off that something is severely amiss over there. It was not casual "research" done later as claimed.
Then the comrade repeated it over here just in case any one had neglected to read his earlier links and thus missed such a sensitive bit of information.
The whole operation over there to me is shabby.

You know what? With my wife's ok-- and with I think a big portion of True Orthodoxy's OK-- allow me to say: please shut up.

You don't have any idea how much work we do to report on True Orthodoxy and balance the discussions we do. We were done talking to you because you justified killing a World Orthodox priest who spoke against Islam. For that reason, we think you are mentally disturbed. For that we say: please shut up.

We don't care about your ridiculous heterodox "saints". We don't like Zionists either. What's amazing is that we don't want to live under Zionism, nor under Islam. We want to live freely as Christians. And we will respond to ALL your syncretistic garbage. You have a problem with that obviously. To that we say: please shut up.

Please stop attacking my wife. You aren't hurting her feelings. You are just making her mad, so she has to respond. She gets over it. And with that, our Muslim interlocutor, you are simply wasting all our time. For that we say: please shut up.

Are you getting the picture? You can post here all day long. Frankly, you are the most frequent contributor here. And what's REALLY sad is-- that means it's not really True Orthodox commentary any more. It's just the ranting of some crazy person. For that we say: please shut up.

Rant away here. But don't mock our organization. We have better things to do. That's why I don't post here. You come on attacking my wife and mocking my son's name? Is this the E-cafe now? Attack the Suaidens? Pathetic. Attack Minas? Sad. We know you don't like what we do. A lot of people don't. But guess what? It will continue. You think NFTU is four people? You are sadly mistaken. I won't say anymore. Until you attack Minas' child. Because you know what? Trolls don't deserve an open forum.

You can say all you want, and your worthless veiled threats are just that. Cheap and stupid. Now you can write a stupid denial. But guess what? We're never going away. And you can't stop us. Welcome to Christianity. Now shut up.

Jonathan: I address this to you--Is this how the E-cafe is going to stay alive? Appeasing sickos who have nothing better to do than attack your friends at NFTU? Is this what the e-cafe has become? Slam on NFTU, perhaps Orthodoxy while we are at it? Maybe we need to reassess how we do things. Kind of sad, but that's life.

True Orthodoxy will move forward, and we don't need help. It just goes on.

[Suaidan]

To gather all the last comments …

It is interesting how in the ancient languages they didn’t differentiate between the two Jesus, save by the title of CHRIST and son of Nun … The modern English rendering of the name seems to be closer to Hebrew and Arabic/Aramaic …

I am not condoning the killing of the MP priest, and I actually haven’t read all the postings about it, but I believe that he was indeed guilty of provoking the Muslims maybe with the secret purpose of receiving a martyric crown or to gain popularity (for me anything that comes from the MP or any of the other official jurisdictions has to be revised over and over, since they are corrupt in their ways and there is always a motive behind everything they do, and most of the time is not a good one). I am not saying necessarily that he deserved to die, or that the Muslims were right, but anyone with common sense will know that if you attack someone, especially over a long period of time, that person will respond to the attack, and it will certainly be in a violent way.

I don't have to refer to my own personal experience, but just the general atmosphere created in Muslim-dominated areas over time to answer that. I don't think that everyone in the MP is of necessity evil or that everything they do is totally and utterly perverse, nor do I have to believe that to validate True Orthodoxy. Islam, whenever it takes over an area, has demonstrated repeatedly that it does not tolerate Christianity of any sort, and hasn't since its inception. Nor does the alleged "attack" have to be violent or even provocative.

I am sure that "Catherine5" feels the same way about the Martyrs of Spain in the 9th century that she does about the New Martyrs of the Turkish yoke and this Fr Daniel Syosev, whom I don't believe is a martyr. They are all labelled as agitators, even though the "crime" was often as little as refusing to marry a Muslim (illegal in a Muslim-dominated area) or ringing a Church bell. If I remember correctly, the ringing of bells was one of this man's provocative acts. I couldn't care less if you were a Uniate Jesuit in the Russicum or a Soviet pseudo-priest.

There are ways of doing things, and there are other ways, and I believe he was just trying to push them as far as he could, to see a result. I don’t see any pious Orthodox preaching and evangelizing, but a maniac that thought he could get away with it, something VERY different from those that suffered and still suffer under Islamic rule everywhere (especially Orthodox Christians, and Christians in general, for the matter) who are just trying to keep the Faith and traditions of their fathers, and are not trying to attack the government or establishment by offending them and crusading against them like this priest was doing.

Well, I think that's part of the issue that made this particular story so galvanizing. Certainly the MP has been bandied around as the official Church in the media, et cetera for a while, "all of Russia is Orthodox", and so on. The simple reality is that Fr Daniel's murder demonstrated-- in short order-- that this was not true, and that I think affected a lot of people. Frankly I am not sure why we doubt the sincerity or quality of Father Daniel's methods (via his MP training) since the accusation of wrongdoing came primarily from (a) his murderers and (b) the administration of the MP after the fact.

Personal attacks are regrettable, and it is very sad that this place has become that, just a ground for stupid name calling, vicious attacks on each other, and the like. I used to come here for news, when this was more active, many years ago. Lately it seems it controlled just by certain groups, and only their views are approved and ratified. There is no balance among the “jurisdictional” groups that come here, and although some people read comments and posts, it is mostly a dead site. I don’t see any aims to help others, but just to discuss silly subjects like president Obama (who cares if he is the antichrist or not, if he is, IS THERE SOMETHING YOU COULD DO TO STOP IT? NO! So forget about it), or other nonsense subjects that are more fit for American television than to an Orthodox forum.

I'm not sure it really matters where the television comes from. There is always a certain "innocence" to television outside America. It's less jaded. However, there are usually other immoral pits of sex or violence which are allowable. The producers of these shows worldwide (which often simply make television shows for other national markets, including the US) know what is acceptable and what isn't to their people, and push that envelope accordingly.

For me the personal attacks are more than regrettable. They're insulting, and personally so, as they are intended to be. I've read nothing but insults towards my wife and MInas, who does a great deal of good work. Obviously "Catherine5" reads my wife's blog. It's no coincidence that she decided to mock the name "Joshua". It's my YOUNGEST SON's name, who my wife dotes upon. And it doesn't seem to stop, this endless volley of attacks upon my family, friends, and occasionally, my Orthodox religion.

What surprises me is how few people do not speak out against the errors. Only Pravoslavnik and the victims of the personal attacks seem to have done so, which perplexes me. I simply remain astounded by the level of tolerance of outright heresy because "well, he's not in my jurisdiction" (which, by the way, is a pretty pathetic reason to allow someone to slam on your saints while introducing "saints" who do not confess the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Remember Him?)

We do our best to provide a balanced and Orthodox voice on NFTU. And that's why I don't appreciate this relentless attack (done under the guise of oneself being relentlessly attacked and persecuted, which is precisely how most terrorists respond -- you attacked someone in some country where the US has stationed a plane, therefore I have a right to blow up your house, et cetera).

That said: under no circumstances will we ever allow so "free" a flow of views on our site that argues that even a Papist or Protestant, who claims to confess the Christian faith, can be justifiably killed. Not by Muslims, not by Hindus, and not by Jews. And when it is inter-sectarian we will report on it when we can. But I wouldn't care if the "priest" in question was "ordained" by Stalin himself. If he gets shot in the face for saying "Jesus lives, He loves you and this is a Christian country", I've got a problem with his getting shot by someone who considers Our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ a lesser prophet, of whom we must never speak. And I've got a bigger problem with people who go on NFTU of all places (couldn't you make these nasty comments on a secular source? Going to NFTU, which is specifically an Orthodox site, and then basically telling everyone "well, he deserved to get it," a veiled warning that no one is allowed to speak ill of "the prophet"-- even on our site? I seriously considered putting up a bunch of anti-Islam apologetic all over NFTU to send a message that we couldn't care less what the Muslims think either.

It was my wife-- peace be upon her-- who suggested simply banning the crazy person. Considering "Catherine5"'s behavior here, which has been tolerated and promoted, I see that was the more effective move.

We are very big on free speech. But the "tolerance" of Islamic intolerance is something we won't even allow on our site. Why? Because I'd like to keep my free speech, something they don't have in those enlighted Islamic lands where Christians are free to keep Churches they can't open and get in trouble for praying in. And I don't care what jurisdiction you are. You can either be part of the problem or part of the solution.

That's the last I have to say on this matter.