Icons of the theotokos without head covering

The practice of living the life in Christ: fasting, vigil lamps, head-coverings, family life, icon corners, and other forms of Orthopraxy. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.
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Liudmilla
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Post by Liudmilla »

Dear Angela:

I don't wear the silly things. They don't stay where they belong. Given a choice between futzing with it it or praying, I choose praying, so tightness and looseness is hardly an issue, although the extra blood to the brain does keep me from a pretense at being overly self---- whatever (fill in the blanks yourselves)....

Milla

P.S. I don't need lessons on how to wear them...please, you would only be repeating what every other woman has tried to impart in the past...see the above links.... GOD did not give me a scarf friendly or for that matter hat friendly head, so we make do.

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GOCPriestMark
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Post by GOCPriestMark »

Um, good morning all. It is my understanding that there is a PM system here and even a private Women's forum for this kind of, um, discussion.

PS. My Presvytera says: "No cat, or hat, or cat-in-the-hat fights please." 8)

==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==+==

Priest Mark Smith
British Columbia

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Liudmilla
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Post by Liudmilla »

:mrgreen:

Aw, shucks and we were having such fun too!

Milla :D

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Jean-Serge
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Post by Jean-Serge »

Some comments. We must distinguish conservatism and traditionalism. Saying that a thing is good simply because it was done in the Russian church in the 18th is conservatism and not traditionalism. The church has always been "corrupted" by foreign elements. Some of them are really obvious on some icons.

1° the folded hands : it is catholic position of the hand to pray which was invented by the Franciscan in Middle Age. It is a copy of the position of the hands of the liegeman when he swears oath to his liegelord. Nothing orthodox here

2° the arms crossed over the chest is also a Western influence. It is pietistic attitude first described by the Renaissance Italian painters. For example in the Annunciation of Fran Angelico in Florence.

3° the general impression of these icons is that they look like catholic pious images. I was told that a monastery was really full of such "icons". A monk was asked how he could pray in fromt of them. He answered : "I close my eyes".

Unfortunately, with Peter the Great, the Russian church abandonned traditional inconography (that was preserved by old believers) and traditional singing too, also preserved by old believers, to walk on the path of westernization.

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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Lenexa
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Post by Lenexa »

2° the arms crossed over the chest is also a Western influence. It is pietistic attitude first described by the Renaissance Italian painters. For example in the Annunciation of Fran Angelico in Florence.

Unfortunately, with Peter the Great, the Russian church abandonned traditional inconography (that was preserved by old believers) and traditional singing too, also preserved by old believers, to walk on the path of westernization.

But Old Believers stand throughout the Services with their arms folded on their chests. I suppose I wanted to point this out as it may be an instance when the Old Believers enshrined a practice which really has Western roots. A bit ironic? As far as Old Believer iconography I have only seen the iconography of Pimen Sofronov which I am exremely fond of. Jean-Serge if you know of any stores or online galleries of Old Believer iconography and/or contemporary Old Believer style iconographers let me know please.

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Jean-Serge
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Post by Jean-Serge »

Lenexa wrote:

But Old Believers stand throughout the Services with their arms folded on their chests. I suppose I wanted to point this out as it may be an instance when the Old Believers enshrined a practice which really has Western roots. A bit ironic?

I did not know this...

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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jacqueline
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Post by jacqueline »

Liudmilla wrote:

Dear Angela:

I don't wear the silly things. They don't stay where they belong. Given a choice between futzing with it it or praying, I choose praying, so tightness and looseness is hardly an issue, although the extra blood to the brain does keep me from a pretense at being overly self---- whatever (fill in the blanks yourselves)....

Milla

P.S. I don't need lessons on how to wear them...please, you would only be repeating what every other woman has tried to impart in the past...see the above links.... GOD did not give me a scarf friendly or for that matter hat friendly head, so we make do.

I'm not going to give you a lesson on how to wear them because I don't have a scarf friendly head either. However, I find that the larger ones that you can drape , like pashminas, work quite well and stay on most of the time.

"Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, and today, and for ever." ( Heb.13:8 )

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