Birth Control

[Justin Kissel]

Sues,

I'm really not sure what anyone said to make you have such thoughts? I'm genuinely perplexed by this? Personally, I consider monasticism, celibacy, singleness, and so forth to be a much greater path than marriage. If anything, most people would call me crazy (or a "convert zealot who doesn't understand") for my own beliefs. I hope that I have not said anything that made you want to leave or feel awkward?

"But they will perhaps ask, what then is the meaning of 'male and female,' and 'Be fruitful and multiply?' (Gen. 1:27-28 ) In answer we shall say that 'Be fruitful and multiply' does not altogether refer to the multiplying by the marriage connection... The precept of the law, therefore, is to be taken in a more spiritual sense. For there is spiritual seed which is conceived through the love and fear of God in the spiritual womb, travailing and bringing forth the spirit of salvation." - St. John of Damascus, Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith, 4, 24

[Lucian]

Sues57 -

Who cares what people on this board think? Don't let someone else's judgement of you affect you. People here don't know any better that you how you should live the Faith - because it is different for each of us.

The only opinion you should care about is what is in your heart and what your Priest recommends to you.

Everyone else's opinion is not worth 2 cents!

In this case, you can add my 2 cents to Tom's 2 cents.

That makes 4 cents for what Tom said! :mrgreen:

[Lucian]

Deacon Nikolai: Otherwise, from what I have read, I do not know of a case where I would support it. As often has been said, since married couples must fast from relations when they fast, and with the natural cycle, there is no need for birth control in Orthodoxy as there is less than 1/3 of the year when it is allowed!

You know, when I was first introduced to Orthodoxy as an enquirer, no one told me that Orthodox Christian couples are only allowed to engage in sex about 100 or so days out of the year. Had I been told that, I have little doubt what my reaction would have been.

Are there actually young married couples out there who keep a Church calendar by their beds and carefully check each day to see whether or not sexual passion is permissible?

Pardon me, but such a scenario seems incredible to me.

My inclination is to be very wary of those who heap up extra "commandments" to load onto the backs of Christians.

Lord knows we have enough camels to carry without having to stop and strain at gnats.

[Justin Kissel]

Are there actually young married couples out there who keep a Church calendar by their beds and carefully check each day to see whether or not sexual passion is permissible?

Well how does one answer such a question? Either you broadcast that you have no will-power, or you toot your own horn! So let me just say this: there are couples out there who at least try to do this. It is very difficult, but that's sort of the point.

[尼古拉前执事]

Are there actually young married couples out there who keep a Church calendar by their beds and carefully check each day to see whether or not sexual passion is permissible?

Pardon me, but such a scenario seems incredible to me.

Orthodoxy in an incredible religion.

Let us replace "beds" with "kitchen" and "sexual passion" with "meat, eggs and dairy"

To many this too would seem incredible, but this is following the fasts of Orthodoxy. Christ said "when you fast" not "if you fast". We truly fast, not just from food, but from other pleasures as well. What is so incredible about constraint, self-control and fasting? Nothing should be incredible about this. Yes, in today's world, even fasting regularly from meat, eggs and dairy on almost every Wednesday and Friday seems incredible to the world. We are not a people of the world, we are called to be a people of Christ that do not succumb to every pleasure of the world whenever we self-will it.

[Apologist]

"And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother’s wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother’s wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also." (Genesis 38:8-10)

[joasia]

Lucien wrote:

My inclination is to be very wary of those who heap up extra "commandments" to load onto the backs of Christians.

Well, you'll have to take that up with Christ. We don't make the rules, we just follow them.

I guess, now adays, people are in such a spiritual state of indulgence, that they don't even want to correct themselves.

If you were an athlete, Lucien, and you were told that you had to work out 5 days a week to get into the Olympics, wouldn't you discipline yourself? Or if it was some other goal. Don't we all try to discipline ourselves to be better at it? What's the confusion about the spiritual aspect then?

It is more to our spiritual benefit to conquer our weaknesses, if we care anything about our faith.

The thought that we are being burdened by "extra commandments" is not the issue. The important consideration is to believe in what you are doing for the sake of our faith. Yes, there are people that make it sound like you are not doing enough. Well, I say....read the writings of the Orthodox saints and let their words speak to your heart. There are many people, in the church, that will have comments to make about your conduct or your lack of...but, all that matters is to care about doing what is right by God.

If we have discussions about our opinions on subjects...it's just discussions. Nobody is putting on extra commandments on you.

From what I know about life...when a person complains that they are being burdened with extra commandements...it means that they have not developed the will-power to deny their passion. It takes time.

You'll be surprised what you can do(or not do)...when you really want to.