Christodoulos vs Bartholomew

DIscussion and News concerning Orthodox Churches in communion with those who have fallen into the heresies of Ecumenism, Renovationism, Sergianism, and Modernism, or those Traditional Orthodox Churches who are now involved with Name-Worshiping, or vagante jurisdictions. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


OrthodoxyOrDeath

Christodoulos vs Bartholomew

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

[My comments in brackets... :) ]


27/04/2004 19:06:26
ANKARA (ANA - A. Kourkoulas) The crisis in relations between the Ecumenical Patriarchate and the Church of Greece has deepened following the unexpected elections of metropolitans for vacant 'New Lands' dioceses in northern Greece by an emergency meeting of the Hierarchy of the Autocephalous Orthodox Church of Greece.

Phanar mobilised its response on Tuesday, calling a major Holy Synod meeting of independent Orthodox Churches to examine the situation created by what it sees as unilateral actions on the part of Archbishop of Athens and All Greece Christodoulos.

The Synod is expected to include church leaders attached to the Ecumenical throne in countries ranging from faraway Korea to the Dodecanese islands, Crete, Europe and America.

The Ecumenical Patriarchate claimed that it had not yet been officially informed about any of the actions and decisions initiated on Monday by Christodoulos.

The way that the elections were arranged has deepened conviction in Phanar that the Greek Archbishop's aim was not to defuse the ecclesiastical crisis and find a solution but to make a ''show of strength''. Patriarchate officials are also incensed and embittered over what they see as a ''misinformation campaign'' begun by Athens.

They point out that Christodoulos' actions are now based on a slim majority that is foreign to the traditions of the Church, [funny how they become so keenly aware of every minute detail of church tradition when it has to do with their wordly power; this is what makes me think they are masons] where decisions on such issues are almost always unanimous.

Church of Greece prelates met for an emergency meeting on Monday [emergency meeting for territory but not Balamand] that first voted in favour of an agreement with the Patriarchate that declared respect and acceptance of a 1928 act governing ecclesiastical administration of the 'New Lands'.

In a much more closely contested vote immediately afterward, however, the meeting decided to immediately proceed with episcopal elections for the vacant sees of Thessaloniki, Eleftheroupoli, Mesogaia and Kozani.

After fierce and sometimes acrimonious debate in which some metropolitans and bishops walked out, this motion was eventually passed by 35 votes for, 23 against, eight blank votes and five abstentions.

After a marathon session lasting nine hours, in which those who walked out in protest were considered as 'absent', the Church Hierarchy approved the transfer of Metropolitan Anthimos to Thessaloniki, the election of Archmandrite Chrysostomos Avagianos in Eleftheroupoli, Archmandrite Pavlos Papalexiou in Kozani and Archmandrite Nikolaos Hatzinikolaou, head of the Bioethics Committee, for Mesogaia.

Patriarch Vartholomeos has already warned that Phanar will not recognise the elections of the new metropolitans arranged by Christodoulos [but he will recognize Latin bishops], while threatening to break ''communion'' with the Archbishop if he went ahead with this course of action. [wow, so basically he will break "communion" over a small ecclesiatical matter while he struggles for "full communion" with the Latins despite insurmountable heresy. But when a person is only concerned with worldy affairs and not spiritual ones, this logically follows.]

A proposal for a common session of the Patriarchate's Major Synod and the Synod of the Church of Greece was made on Tuesday by main opposition PASOK's parliamentary spokesman Haris Kastanidis, who warned that the crisis could have "dire consequences on both a Canonical and a national level, with serious geopolitical repercussions".

Kastanidis said that a clash should be avoided and said his party was ready to undertake initiatives as soon as possible, stressing that this stance should be mirrored by other political parties. [perhaps Mr. Kastanidis should take charge and fire a few bishops]

Etienne
Member
Posts: 168
Joined: Wed 21 April 2004 5:26 am

Post by Etienne »

Oh, dear

Having swallowed a camel they strain at a nat.................

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

what it [the EP] sees as unilateral actions on the part of Archbishop of Athens and All Greece Christodoulos (emphsis mine)

Pot, meet Kettle. You have something in common, I think.

User avatar
Aristokles
Member
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri 28 November 2003 5:57 pm
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Contact:

Post by Aristokles »

There is much more than a small turf spat involved here, gentlemen. The COG is attempting financial extortion and the extinction of the Patriarchate hoping that Greece will become a compromise new EP - nothing less - that none will support the MP and the COG will win by default.
We constantly hear that Greece funds the EP so much. They do? Sure - from these very sees that are the EP's to start with.
I'll just assume your gloating is naivete.

As to "masons" - I know of no masonic lodges in any Islamic country, that's plain laughable ; so you might want to think that stretch out a little better.

If you claim to be "true" Orthodox here - I can't see it. Prayers that their errors will be corrected (all errors) are more worthy of this forum.

Demetri

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

If there are no Muslim masons, then how does anything get built? :D

http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/layiktez.html

If you are pressed for time, you can skip to the end. I thought Athanagoras was an admitted Freemason?

Makis
Jr Member
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat 22 November 2003 8:15 pm

Post by Makis »

Dear Dimitri

The COG is attempting financial extortion and the extinction of the Patriarchate hoping that Greece will become a compromise new EP - nothing less - that none will support the MP and the COG will win by default

Sorry, but I think you got your Churches mixed up, it's not the COG that has any aspirations of becoming First among equals, but the MP (at least, according to the rumors).

We constantly hear that Greece funds the EP so much. They do? Sure - from these very sees that are the EP's to start with

Sorry, again you are wrong.

Yes, Greece is funding the "Greek" Patriarchates (Constantinople, Jerusalem and Alexandria), but not with money from the so-called "new territories" (I wonder how new a territory is when it was liberated in 1913, but never mind).
The money going to these Patriarchates comes from the Greek state, which collects this money through...... taxes, so, in pother words, I and everybody living and working in Greece is paying for the Patriarchates.

At this moment (2.32 a.m.) I'm at work in stead of sleeping in my bed, and I make money for myself and for the Patriarchates so I hope they appreciate it :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :lol: :lol:

This is only the official way in which money is going to the Patriarchates, believe me, there are many more unofficial ways (no, don't jump, non of them are illegal) in which funds are going their way.

Dear Dimitri, I do not often agree with OOD, but this time at least he has one point:

[funny how they become so keenly aware of every minute detail of church tradition when it has to do with their wordly power; this is what makes me think they are masons]

The mason part I do not agree with (I also fail to see the connection) until I see proof of the EP being a lodge-member, but it is cynical that this (and several previous) EP is striving for unity with rome while disregarding many cannonical and dogmatical obstacles, and in a sense excommunicating an Orthodox Church over purely legal (non-theological) matters.

In Christ,

Makis

User avatar
Aristokles
Member
Posts: 167
Joined: Fri 28 November 2003 5:57 pm
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Contact:

Post by Aristokles »

Makis,
Yes the MP has long had these aspirations, but the RUMOR here is that the Archbishop of Greece is trying to offer himself as a compromise option. The northern sees, where most of my relatives live, if lost to the EP, will spell its doom - Greek state support aside. Such "support'" looks pretty suspect from over here given your bishop's actions. And we over here send quite a bit directly to the Phanar without state interference. So, sorry, you need to adjust your perspective and stop reading the Athens dailies only.
OOD just wants to grind salt in the wounds. I won't play that game. Go ahead, agree with him if you wish. Normally I do agree with him, but not on this( the opposite of you).
I don't see the EP striving for unity with Rome, just playing silly word games so each of those hierarchs can 'say' their doing something.
As to masons, many on this forum read too much of their own propaganda - I understand the role the lodges played in early 20th century America for the Greek immigrants (and it had little, if anything, to do with the Church) but I will not bother posting the history here; it would be wasted effort.

Demetri

Post Reply