From a priest that left ROCOR

[Anastasios]

ROCOR has always been in communion with Serbia and Jerusalem, even at the time that OOD's Synod was in communion with them (pre-1994) (c.f. my linked article where I show that the Etna group was well aware of it in 1992).

ROCOR has deliberately had a vague ecclesiology to accomodate the diverse elements within it. Fr Seraphim Rose, in the biography written about him, "Not of this World," is quoted as saying that some people always tried to force Met Philaret to declare the NC's graceless but that he would not do it because it was not the universal consensus of the ROCOR of something to that effect (when I find it next time--the book is 1000 pages--I will scan it).

anastasios

[Joseph D]

I think it is right, self-contradiction is the very worst circumstace in which
good leadership can find itself. Though to avoid such glaring errors, the
so-called "Traditionalists" are willing to relocate to Colorado or California.
Why have the hierarchs of THOC and ROAC chosen to go where the
money is?

Well now, that was a barbed question. I am sorry. I suppose I could
wonder just as much why ROCOR only thrives in large metropoloi where
a thousand "demonic" religions also flourish. Maybe the shepherds are just following their flock. I wonder.

All of this infighting just encourages more religious escapism, but perhaps
that is the idea -- steel sharpens steel, they say. No mention of such in the
above account, however; though I do applaud the Priest for not turning
coat altogether.

Sincerely:
Joseph

[Грешник]

Joseph,

Can you please define, "GO WHERE THE MONEY IS" and I please do hope you have a basis to your thoughts/accusations on this. If you believe that ROAC has this substantial ammount of money then it might do you well to explain.

I moved out ot CO because i agree 100% with the position of the ROAC and the other churches close to me were Montana or CA. I have friends in CO as well as family and I thought it best to start a family here. What the ROAC has it has through the generosity of its members. It does not go around seeking donations from wealthy people or the like.

I would like to see your proof for your statements above as it puzzles me where such statements are born and bred. As with anyone on this list who has ran asideline with ROAC when they are not a member and 9 times out of ten have not even ventured to speak in person or over the phone etc. with a ROAC priest or the Bishop who, for being only one man makes himself available 28 hours a day for anyone wishing to speak with him.

And yes I know the party line of "Why should we call your hierarch, would you call mine?" And the answer is yes. I have nothing to hide and if someone can prove to me that what I beliee is wrong then i will more than gladly talk it over wit hthem but this does not seem to occur without assumptiions, slanders, or outright boldness against the teachings of the Orthodox Church.

My email is always open.

[Joseph D]

Joseph,

Can you please define, "GO WHERE THE MONEY IS" and I please do hope you have a basis to your thoughts/accusations on this. If you believe that ROAC has this substantial ammount of money then it might do you well to explain.

I moved out ot CO because i agree 100% with the position of the ROAC and the other churches close to me were Montana or CA. I have friends in CO as well as family and I thought it best to start a family here. What the ROAC has it has through the generosity of its members. It does not go around seeking donations from wealthy people or the like.

I would like to see your proof for your statements above as it puzzles me where such statements are born and bred. As with anyone on this list who has ran asideline with ROAC when they are not a member and 9 times out of ten have not even ventured to speak in person or over the phone etc. with a ROAC priest or the Bishop who, for being only one man makes himself available 28 hours a day for anyone wishing to speak with him.

And yes I know the party line of "Why should we call your hierarch, would you call mine?" And the answer is yes. I have nothing to hide and if someone can prove to me that what I beliee is wrong then i will more than gladly talk it over wit hthem but this does not seem to occur without assumptiions, slanders, or outright boldness against the teachings of the Orthodox Church.

My email is always open.

Dear Juvenaly Martinka:

I am not sure I understand much of your note. The tone is defensive...

I do not feel I need to prove anything to you. It is these rambling, repetitive, self-important apologies that make it all but impossible for someone like me to take an interest in what is being said. Curious? I grow even more bored when every minute little micro-fact must be mentioned and twenty names are dropped and third-hand private conversations cited just to make a post seem important. "Confessional" writing is the worst, however. People never seem to think they are getting it right unless they are using the same kind of of hackneyed style and argument we have already seen a hundred times before, some there as reflection, some there as rant.

I am as guilty of all these things as anyone else, and maybe even more so in some cases -- I refer you to the Joseph D archives on my profile page, though anyone of taste reading my work is more likely to fall asleep before being impressed or even outraged.

I suppose of what I am most critical is the "bunker mentality" posts like yours and the other chain-link starter above tend to foster. I was a savage to begin with, I do not need a colossal religion to make me a savage again.

Sincerely:
Joseph

[Justin Kissel]

Joseph,

Why have the hierarchs of THOC and ROAC chosen to go where the money is?

I'm afraid I don't understand this? Who is the THOC, and who do you think has money? And what makes you think that these hierarchs are going somewhere in particular for the money?

Does this have to do with Mary and I maybe moving to Richmond, VA?

[Joseph D]

Joseph,

Why have the hierarchs of THOC and ROAC chosen to go where the money is?

I'm afraid I don't understand this? Who is the THOC, and who do you think has money? And what makes you think that these hierarchs are going somewhere in particular for the money?

I think Colorado and California are magnets for the noveau riches, who are also often attracted to eccentric, self-validating religions. It's really a very simple generalization, and an easy one considering real estate and religious trends among fashionably self-righteous egoists.

Does this have to do with Mary and I maybe moving to Richmond, VA?

I am not following your life, Sir. But congradulations.

Sincerely:
Joseph

[Justin Kissel]

Well, your post was offensive, and I was trying to lighten the mood. But humor has never been something I've been good at.