Early Church teachings about the Papacy and Roman See?

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Hieromonk Enoch
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Re: Early Church teachings about the Papacy and Roman See?

Post by Hieromonk Enoch »

"And, I might add, daringly, from which group is the person making the statement. That is,
if I see the word Papist, I am instantly sure that it is a Protestant deriving from some firebrand, seethingly
resentful English denomination."

Certainly not! Go here and look at point 8 of the Encyclical of the Eastern Patriarchs (1848) in Greek:
http://www.agioskosmas.gr/sindesmos.asp ... artid=4614

Then go here and look at it in English:

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/encyc_1848.aspx

In Greek it is Παπισταὶ for papists. It was a common term, used in official documents of the Orthodox Church in the 19th century when speaking about the Vatican and it's subservient bodies. In all official documents, the Orthodox Church has refused to even countenance the Vatican with the name 'Catholic' in any manner. Even the term 'Roman Catholic' is not used. While, it may be better in individual conversation to say 'Roman Catholic' rather than 'Papist', this is only a convention; strictly speaking, it seems, the term 'Papist' has been used by the Church to describe the Vatican communion. Even the 1895 Encyclical of the Church of Constantinople castigated the Papists, as well, Papists:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1895 ... clical.asp

Certainly you've seen the icons where St. Mark of Ephesus is depicted as saying "Flee from the Papists!"

In Christ,

Fr. Enoch

“We cannot destroy the Ecclesiastical Canons, who are defenders and keepers of the Canons, not their transgressors.” (Pope St. Martin the Confessor)

http://nftu.net/

http://westernorthodoxchristian.blogspot.com/

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Barbara
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Re: Early Church teachings about the Papacy and Roman See?

Post by Barbara »

Well, Fr Augustine, you are much better versed than I am.
I have to hand it to you for breadth of knowledge.

When will your book be released ?!!
Seriously - you should consider writing one [or more !]. You are a clear, good writer
and have much information saved up.

Hieromonk Enoch
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Re: Early Church teachings about the Papacy and Roman See?

Post by Hieromonk Enoch »

Hi Barbara,

Sorry if I sounded like "I told you so" (am not sure how to interpret your response). But, in reading things, it seems that, without knowing it, people (including myself!!!) often assume something is "x" when it is actually "y".

Book? Nope. I would never be that coordinated and patient; it would never be published because I would keep on thinking about the intricacies of an argument and by the time I was finished answering every possible objection, elucidating all the possible answers, covering all the possible permutations so as to evade as much as possible the charge of leaving stuff out, the book (on any subject I would write) would be 1000 pages.

In Christ,

Fr. Enoch

p.s. I do not know Russian; but, I do have google translate, I do have access to Russian dictionaries (including Church Slavonic ones for theological terms), and I know several people who are competent in Russian. So, even if I don't know the language well, I can decipher things through machine translation, look at the languages grammar rules, look through the dictionary (and check verb and noun forms on wiktionary), and then ask someone who knows Russian if it is right or not.

“We cannot destroy the Ecclesiastical Canons, who are defenders and keepers of the Canons, not their transgressors.” (Pope St. Martin the Confessor)

http://nftu.net/

http://westernorthodoxchristian.blogspot.com/

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Maria
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Re: Early Church teachings about the Papacy and Roman See?

Post by Maria »

FrAugustine wrote:

"And, I might add, daringly, from which group is the person making the statement. That is,
if I see the word Papist, I am instantly sure that it is a Protestant deriving from some firebrand, seethingly
resentful English denomination."

Certainly not! Go here and look at point 8 of the Encyclical of the Eastern Patriarchs (1848) in Greek:
http://www.agioskosmas.gr/sindesmos.asp ... artid=4614

Then go here and look at it in English:

http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/encyc_1848.aspx

In Greek it is Παπισταὶ for papists. It was a common term, used in official documents of the Orthodox Church in the 19th century when speaking about the Vatican and it's subservient bodies. In all official documents, the Orthodox Church has refused to even countenance the Vatican with the name 'Catholic' in any manner. Even the term 'Roman Catholic' is not used. While, it may be better in individual conversation to say 'Roman Catholic' rather than 'Papist', this is only a convention; strictly speaking, it seems, the term 'Papist' has been used by the Church to describe the Vatican communion. Even the 1895 Encyclical of the Church of Constantinople castigated the Papists, as well, Papists:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1895 ... clical.asp

Certainly you've seen the icons where St. Mark of Ephesus is depicted as saying "Flee from the Papists!"

In Christ,

Fr. Enoch

Please forgive me, Father Enoch, I stand corrected.

Thank you very much for your well documented comment.

St. Nectarios also used the term Papists in his writings according to two of his biographers. This saintly Bishop was a True Orthodox Christian in that he opposed the ways of the Modernists and Ecumenists who wanted to move in the direction of unity with Rome. Not surprisingly, he also advocated that his seminarians wear frocks (raissas) and facial hair.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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