"Ancient of Days" Icon

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.
Ephrem
Member
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue 23 February 2010 6:38 pm
Jurisdiction: FROC/ROAC
Location: Pensacola, FL

"Ancient of Days" Icon

Post by Ephrem »

Brothers and Sisters, pray for me.

I would like to start a discussion on icons which depict God the Father as the "Ancient of Days". This is often mentioned in passing throughout the E-Cafe. I understand there is a lot of controversy over this issue, and so I feel that it deserves a discussion devoted to it. I know that many of you are more learned and knowledgeable than I am, and so I hope that those of you who have some insight into this topic could shed some light on this topic.

Some questions to start out:

What is the Church's stance as regards the "Ancient of Days" icon according to the Holy Fathers and the Ecumenical councils?

Is acceptance or rejection of the icon a dogmatic issue or an issue of theologoumena (or piety)?

I beg that we would all keep watch over ourselves when discussing this issue (or any other issue, for that matter), as it is clearly a matter of controversy amongst the True Orthodox.

I beg your prayers for my family.

Ephrem Cummings, Subdeacon
ROAC

Pravoslavnik
Sr Member
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed 17 January 2007 9:34 pm
Jurisdiction: ROCOR- A

Re: "Ancient of Days" Icon

Post by Pravoslavnik »

Ephrem,

Code: Select all

 My recollection is that the "Ancient of Days" icon is a representation of the Word, the Christ, as described by the Holy Prophet Ezekial.

 There was a discussion of the issue of writing icons of God the Father in one of the biographies of the Holy Elders of Optina.  I believe it was described in the biography of Optina Elder Leonty.  As I recall, the conclusion of the Elders was that it was not appropriate for an Orthodox iconographer to write an icon of God the Father.

  On the other hand, the Lord told His Apostle Phillip that "He who has seen me has seen the Father."
Ephrem
Member
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue 23 February 2010 6:38 pm
Jurisdiction: FROC/ROAC
Location: Pensacola, FL

Re: "Ancient of Days" Icon

Post by Ephrem »

Pravoslavnik wrote:

There was a discussion of the issue of writing icons of God the Father in one of the biographies of the Holy Elders of Optina. I believe it was described in the biography of Optina Elder Leonty. As I recall, the conclusion of the Elders was that it was not appropriate for an Orthodox iconographer to write an icon of God the Father.

Do you think it would be possible to relate a direct quote of this? That would be very appreciated!

Ephrem Cummings, Subdeacon
ROAC

User avatar
Cyprian
Sr Member
Posts: 684
Joined: Sat 12 November 2005 6:40 am
Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: GOC
Location: near Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: "Ancient of Days" Icon

Post by Cyprian »

Greetings Ephrem!

I would greatly love to discuss this very important topic with you.

As for your introductory questions:

What is the Church's stance as regards the "Ancient of Days" icon according to the Holy Fathers and the Ecumenical councils?

The Church's stance is evident for all to see. These icons are found everywhere in the Orthodox Church, throughout the world, and have been venerated by the faithful dating back countless generations. We have the testimony of saints to support veneration of these icons. If these holy icons were somehow improper or heretical, the saints of the Church would have written treatises against them, and denounced them for all to hear. But we know this in fact to be not the case, as those who engage in iconomachy cannot produce any Orthodox treatises by the holy fathers against these icons. Not even one.

Is acceptance or rejection of the icon a dogmatic issue or an issue of theologoumena (or piety)?

It is most certainly a dogmatic issue, for if you thoroughly study the faulty arguments of those who try to justify their fighting against these icons, you will discover their arguments to be rooted in Arianism! The kind of Arianism of which Eusebius of Caesarea was condemned by the fathers of the Holy Seventh Ecumenical Council. You can find expression of this heresy especially in the fifth book of his Demonstratio Evangelica.

User avatar
Cyprian
Sr Member
Posts: 684
Joined: Sat 12 November 2005 6:40 am
Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: GOC
Location: near Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: "Ancient of Days" Icon

Post by Cyprian »

There are a number of common faulty arguments enunciated by many of those who reject these sacred images, and I would like to list a few for the forum's consideration and further study.

Firstly, I would like to mention, the iconomachs argue that the appellation "Ancient of Days" applies exclusively to the Son, and does not apply to the Beginningless Father. This is false and contrary to the revealed teachings of the God-bearing fathers. The "Ancient of Days" is an appellation pertaining to the Godhead. In order to bolster their argument that the Son is exclusively named the "Ancient of Days, the iconomachs are fond of citing Church hymns such as ones found on the Feast of the Meeting of the Lord:

The Ancient of Days, who in times past gave Moses the Law on Sinai, appears this day as a babe.

As everyone can readily see, the Ancient of Days existed in the time of Moses, prior to the Incarnation, so obviously this appellation pertains to the Divine Nature of Christ, and not His humanity. If it pertains to the divinity of Christ, then it likewise pertains to the Father and the Holy Spirit as well, for they share the same divine essence (homoousian) as the Son.

Allow me to quote two eminent saints to illustrate my meaning:

St. Gregory of Nyssa, Against Eunomius, Book VII:

[T]hat in this case the Father is God and the Son is God; that "just," and "incorruptible," and all those names which belong to the Divine Nature, are used equally of the Father and of the Son; and thus, if the divergent character of appellations indicates difference of natures, the community of names will surely show the common character of the essence.

St. Symeon the New Theologian, The Discourses:

If there is need to state anything more precisely, that which the One is, the other Two are as well. For the Three are in the same and are thought of as one Essence and Nature and Kingship. If a name is attributed to One, it is by nature applied to the others, with the exception of the terms Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or the terms beget, begotten, and proceeding, for these alone indisputably apply to the Holy Trinity by nature and in distinctive fashion.

Many saints referred to the Father as the "Ancient of Days," including your patron, the most-lovely Mar Ephrem!

St. Ephraim the Syrian, Selected Works, Vol II. p. 511:

For when [God whom we have called] a mirror was incapable of old age, and the (Jewish) people incapable of the truth, He took to Himself old age for the instructing of the faithless: and since king and old man and child were become effeminate, He put on old age; as a venerable old man did He judge those iniquitous persons who were effeminate in sin. The Being that waxeth not old put on old age to teach by parables concerning His Son and His Beloved. By the mask of old age He shewed His Fatherhood to teach that He hath a Son, the Son of Man, Whom Daniel saw standing before the Ancient of Days, Who did away with mortal kings, and made Himself a King in the Son of the King Immortal. If it had been One only that was sitting, then had there been one seat; but for this reason he saw not one seat, but seats. He shewed that there was an Assessor with Him, and a Son to the Ancient of Days. The thousand thousands whom Daniel saw, them alone did he see standing: to the Son of Man he did not ascribe standing, because He is not a minister.

St. Epiphanius the Five-Tongued of Salamis, Panarion Vol. III

14,3 This Father, Son and Holy Spirit has always vouchsafed to appear in visions to his saints, as each was able to receive [the vision] in accordance with the gift which had been <given> him by the Godhead. This gift was granted to each of those who were deemed worthy, sometimes to see the Father as each was able, <sometimes> to hear his voice as well as he could. (4) When he said by the mouth of Isaiah, “My beloved servant shall understand,” this is the voice of the Father. And when Daniel saw “the Ancient of Days,” this is a vision of the Father. And again, when he says in the prophet, “I have multiplied visions and been portrayed by hands of the prophets,” this is the voice of the Son. And when, in Ezekiel, “The Spirit of God took me” and “brought me out unto the plain,” this refers to the Holy Spirit.

St. John Chrysostom, Commentary on Psalm 110

Let us, however, resume once more our theme. The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand. Do you see the equality of status? Where there is a throne, you see, there is a symbol of kingship; where there is one throne, the equality of status comes from the same kingship. Hence Paul also said, “He made his angels winds, and his servants flames of fire. But of the Son: Your throne, O God, is forever.” Thus, too, Daniel sees all creation in attendance, both angels and archangels, by contrast with the Son of Man coming on the clouds and advancing to the Ancient of Days. If our speaking in these terms is a problem for some, however, let them hear that he is seated at his right hand, and be free of the problem. I mean, as we do not claim he is greater than the Father for having the most honorable seat at his right hand, so you for your part do not say he is inferior and less honorable, but of equal status and honor. This, in fact, is indicated by the sharing of the seat.

As everyone can readily see, St. John Chrysostom is describing the Son of Man seated on the throne at the right hand of the Father, the Ancient of Days, as was seen in the night visions of Daniel the prophet. Notice that St. John speaks of the Son "sharing the seat". Now cast your eyes to the right at my avatar, and you will see a holy icon of the Most-Holy Trinity, which is over 500 years old from Greece, at the Benaki museum in Athens. Notice how in this icon the Son is sharing the seat with the Father, just as the divine Chrysostom describes.

JHunt777
Newbie
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue 12 May 2009 4:47 am
Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR

Re: "Ancient of Days" Icon

Post by JHunt777 »

This link has some helpful information on the subject:

http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhitefor ... ofdays.htm

The depiction of the Ancient of Days as God the Father in icons of the Holy Trinity is not controversial. Neither is the veneration of the Hospitality of Abraham icon controversial, nor referring to the Hospitality icon as the "Holy Trinity". However, in our times there are those who wish to start controversies by anathematizing that which our Fathers did not see fit to anathematize, and dogmatize that which our Fathers did not see fit to dogmatize, so that various factions can compete for the title of "most pure and super true Orthodox Synod ever". The controversy seems mostly limited to HOCNA on the one hand who has been intent on rejecting icons depicting God the Father as the Ancient of Days as though such depictions are heretical (Bp Demetrius told me that Fr. Basil of HTM was asked to leave Esphigmenou for his fanatical opposition to such icons), and then the Matthewites on the other hand. In 1995 a schism resulted among the Matthewites when 5 bishops departed from Abp Andrew of Athens and the rest of the Synod over the claim that they were "neo-iconoclasts" for criticizing certain icons as being the result of Latin influence. It looks as though the Synod under Abp Nicholas has adopted the 1992 Encyclical which affirms the iconographic depiction of God the Father as the Ancient of Days but proceeds to declare that only the Trinity icon depicting God the Father as the Ancient of Days can be referred to as the Trinity, and the Hospitality of Abraham icon can no longer be referred to as such. The 1992 Encyclical also mandates that only the Westernized icon depicting Christ's resurrection, the one where he is holding a flag, may be displayed for veneration on Sundays and on Pascha, whereas the Descent into Hades can no longer be referred to as the icon of the Resurrection nor displayed for veneration on Sundays and on Pascha. As I understand it, this encyclical was not adopted prior to the 1995 schism but only afterwards, but it essentially expresses agreement with those bishops that departed with Met Gregory of Messenia, though Met Gregory in 1997 went even further to anathematize as “neo-iconoclasts” anyone who would believe that depicting God the Father as the Ancient of Days is unOrthodox. In my humble opinion, there is no need for such declarations which exceed the boundaries established by the Fathers. There is no need to say that only one icon can be called “Holy Trinity” when more than one has been venerated under that name by saints for centuries. Such efforts to create some “reformed Orthodoxy”, in my opinion, create much more harm than good. In the aftermath one sees the same splintering that resulted from the reform attempts made by the Protestants.

Pravoslavnik
Sr Member
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed 17 January 2007 9:34 pm
Jurisdiction: ROCOR- A

Re: "Ancient of Days" Icon

Post by Pravoslavnik »

Ephrem,

Code: Select all

  I looked this up today.  The reference I mentioned is, in fact, from the first English edition of Fr. Clement Sederholm's biography of [i][u]Elder Leonid of Optina,[/u][/i] ( St. Herman's Press. 1990. pgs. 123-24.)  There is an anecdote about an akathist to God the Father that was given to Elder Leonid by "a certain lady."  After Elder Antony had reviewed the akathist, he remarked to Leonid that "it would be dangerous to approve this..because the Church does not have any separate services to God the Father."  Elder Leonid responded, "Well, then, give it here, we'll place it in the stove."

   On page 124 there follows a lengthy footnote on the subject of God the Father by the editors.  It is unclear whether this may have been penned by Father Seraphim Rose himself, (for the 1976 Russian edition of this book) or by Abbot Herman (Podmoshensky), Fr. Damascene Christian, or someone else at St. Hermans Monastery.  It reads:

"..although some iconic representations of God the Father have at times been painted historically, they remain peripheral to the Orthodox faith, which has suffered perennially from those who would sunder One of the Hypostases or Persons of the Holy Trinity..."
Post Reply