FreeMasons and Orthodoxy

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.
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Deacon Tikhon
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Re: Masonic Temple Rituals and Works by Ex-Masons!

Post by Deacon Tikhon »

Nicholas wrote:

Tessa & Tikhon, please visit http://www.freemasonrywatch.org which is a huge site about freemasonry, written and compiled by highly placed ex-masons. I think this site will impress you tremendously as these are people in the know, not just conspiracy theorists. :-D

My friend:

I am familiar with the sight you refer to, and it is garbage.
Don't believe a word of it. Ever since the middle ages the Catholic Church has been attempting to destroy Masonry. This is another attempt.

I cannot due to canon law join masonry, and I do not agree with some of their practices, but they are not evil. Most of the time they are just a bunch of good ole boys, playing at ritual.

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尼古拉前执事
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Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

If people are going to say that the ex-Masons who made this site are liars, may I have the proof of this and may I ask where the proof comes from? It seems to me that only Masons or ex-Masons would be able to say which of these things are true or not, right?

Interesting article on the masons that came out yesterday.

As for the charge that the Masonic TEMPLE is evil, the Church only Anathematizes evil.

Deacon Tikhon
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Proof

Post by Deacon Tikhon »

Nicholas wrote:

If people are going to say that the ex-Masons who made this site are liars, may I have the proof of this and may I ask where the proof comes from? It seems to me that only Masons or ex-Masons would be able to say which of these things are true or not, right?

Interesting article on the masons that came out yesterday.

As for the charge that the Masonic TEMPLE is evil, the Church only Anathematizes evil.

The only "proof" I can give you is from my Uncles, who are good "Christian" men, who looked at the website, and said it was a pack of lies. All of it.

Joseph D
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Post by Joseph D »

The website in question does not lie, Tikhon; nor does it offer any truth, Moderator Nicholas. It is just a bunch of pictures and NO DATA. As for the 2 quotes on it, they have nothing to do with Masonry, as was stated in my above post. And as for the article, it was a story about a prank gone bad. A prank. That's what Masonry IS. Hello?

The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion. -- Proverbs

And what of my pollution conspiracy? What about the garbage you put out twice a week? Where does it come from? Where does it go? Get real folks!

Sincerely,
Joseph

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尼古拉前执事
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Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

Joseph D wrote:

The website in question does not lie, Tikhon; nor does it offer any truth, Moderator Nicholas. It is just a bunch of pictures and NO DATA.

Joseph, do me a favor and move on to the 2nd and 3rd page and follow the links to the sections. Sure it is a poorly designed site, but there are TONS of articles on the Masons here!

Joseph D
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Post by Joseph D »

Nicholas wrote:
Joseph D wrote:

The website in question does not lie, Tikhon; nor does it offer any truth, Moderator Nicholas. It is just a bunch of pictures and NO DATA.

Joseph, do me a favor and move on to the 2nd and 3rd page and follow the links to the sections. Sure it is a poorly designed site, but there are TONS of articles on the Masons here!

Alright. I am sorry, Nicholas. I did paruse the material; however, I am still a skeptic. As Vico says, the human mind is indeterminate: even without actual knowledge the mind wanders, travels upon flights of fancy both beautiful and horrific. Several of the articles, even if they are true, focus upon a micro-historical element, one which cannot even be verified in most cases I might add. If one is not willing to trace this sort of thing back to the medieval romances or even to Milton, then perhaps Goethe is a better starting point. Nevermind.

In short and fine, my position is that the Lodge, while a problem in its own right, is not the causa prima of evil society; the Lodge is a mere symptom of a dissolute culture, a severe excess, a sort of spiritual narcotic, for the bourgeois "joiner" of weak character. But greater evils than Masonry do exist, a number of which are not secret but indeed very public.

Sincerely,
Joseph

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Seraphim Reeves
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Post by Seraphim Reeves »

Avoiding (for the moment) discussions of Freemasons greedily working to subvert anything resembling Christendom, the first thing a Christian needs to be aware of is that Freemasonry's principles are opposed to those of Orthodox Christianity, hence membership with Freemasonry is impossible for someone struggling to be a genuine Christian. It would be similar to the conflict that would be involved with claiming to be an Orthodox Christian, yet be integrally involved in a movement that affirms the equality and churchliness of contradictory (even blasphemous) sects of so called Christianity.

Freemasonry itself has the characteristics of a religion - however, it is one which does not make exclusive claims on it's adherants, so they are free to be a part of whatever religion they please (something like old pagan Roman polity - "worship the gods of the state, but otherwise you're free to adore whatever gods you please.") While the convinced Freemason will hardly see a problem in this, Orthodoxy obviously does, and ultimatly that is all that is important.

As for other problems of Freemasonry - some would include it's occult entanglements (the severity of this some dispute, but few would dispute that it is at least present). It's general secrecy, and the taking of oaths which are immoral, is another problem. While I know many would say "oh, you're taking it all too seriously", the point is no Christian should be swearing oaths of these kind (indeed, we're discouraged from swearing oaths at all, let alone towards immoral ends) - that people treat the oaths others take with such frivolity is more a sign of our own decadence, than a demonstration that swearing such oaths is problematic.

I'm sure most men who become Masons do such simply to establish professional relationships, get connected, etc. A few, I think, are deeply attracted to the principles of Freemasonry (at least the ones which are well known and give for public consumption.) What I would remind people of however, is the well known (at least, historical) malevolence of Freemasonry. True, the more public manifestations of this could be found in Roman Catholic parts of Europe, but the accounts are still troubling. If you can come across a copy (though much of it can be found online), Albert Pike's Morals & Dogmas (Pike is something of a hero of Freemasonry to this day, and this work is considered a Masonic classic) I think the wickedness of this organization becomes further apparent.

Seraphim

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