Can icons representing the Father be venerated?

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.
User avatar
Isaakos
Member
Posts: 266
Joined: Sat 4 January 2014 8:27 pm
Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin- Discerning the GOC’s.

Can icons representing the Father be venerated?

Post by Isaakos »

Archimandrit Nilos wrote:

Yes, Western Icons in the cell of St-Mathew the New Confessor. This fact says all !!

But we do have to ask FR. Nilos: although we can venerate the Icon of the Trinity, is it PREFERRED? Would it not be better if these icons which have a Latin influence are eventually phased out? Or if people stopped writing them?

Blessed is the man who has volunteered to hold and keep until the end of his life our holy Orthodox faith, the faith of the one Church of Christ and our mother, the Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Archbishop Matthew Karpathakis

User avatar
Cyprian
Sr Member
Posts: 684
Joined: Sat 12 November 2005 6:40 am
Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: GOC
Location: near Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Which one of these is a valid icon and why?

Post by Cyprian »

Philaret,

Where did you learn that icons of the Holy Trinity (I presume you refer to the ones with the Father depicted as the Ancient of Days) are of "Latin influence"? Orthodox icons of the Holy Trinity are holy and venerable, and perfectly Orthodox. There is no prohibition against depicting the person of the Father in Orthodox iconography, so there is no point in phasing something out which is traditional and accepted in Orthodox iconography.

User avatar
Isaakos
Member
Posts: 266
Joined: Sat 4 January 2014 8:27 pm
Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin- Discerning the GOC’s.

Re: Which one of these is a valid icon and why?

Post by Isaakos »

I honestly can't say where I heard it. I thought the Trinity Icons were prohibited by the Pan-Orthodox synod of 1666?

I agree that the father can be depicted representationally. Cyprian I heard you were a member of the GOC?

Blessed is the man who has volunteered to hold and keep until the end of his life our holy Orthodox faith, the faith of the one Church of Christ and our mother, the Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Archbishop Matthew Karpathakis

User avatar
Cyprian
Sr Member
Posts: 684
Joined: Sat 12 November 2005 6:40 am
Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: GOC
Location: near Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Which one of these is a valid icon and why?

Post by Cyprian »

Alright, where is it taught that the Council of 1666-1667 is Pan-Orthodox? Everyone bring forth their witnesses.

User avatar
Isaakos
Member
Posts: 266
Joined: Sat 4 January 2014 8:27 pm
Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: Latin- Discerning the GOC’s.

Re: Which one of these is a valid icon and why?

Post by Isaakos »

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Moscow_Synod#

It is called Pan-Orthodox and all Patriarchates were represented.

Similar here...

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Moscow_Sobor_of ... %80%931667

And Metropolitan Kirykos and his followers clearly consider it Pan-Orthodox:

http://genuineorthodoxchurch.com/moscow_1666.htm

Just for starters. And besides Christ words himself: no man has seen the father at any time.

Blessed is the man who has volunteered to hold and keep until the end of his life our holy Orthodox faith, the faith of the one Church of Christ and our mother, the Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Archbishop Matthew Karpathakis

User avatar
Maria
Archon
Posts: 8428
Joined: Fri 11 June 2004 8:39 pm
Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOC
Location: USA

Re: Which one of these is a valid icon and why?

Post by Maria »

Isaakos wrote:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Moscow_Synod#

It is called Pan-Orthodox and all Patriarchates were represented.

Similar here...

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Moscow_Sobor_of ... %80%931667

And Metropolitan Kirykos and his followers clearly consider it Pan-Orthodox:

http://genuineorthodoxchurch.com/moscow_1666.htm

Just for starters. And besides Christ words himself: no man has seen the father at any time.

Christ also said to Phillip:

Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 14:9

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

User avatar
Cyprian
Sr Member
Posts: 684
Joined: Sat 12 November 2005 6:40 am
Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: GOC
Location: near Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Can icons representing the Father be venerated?

Post by Cyprian »

Isaakos,

Wikipedia and the "Orthodox" wiki are not completely reliable sources of information. They can be a useful resource, but I have encountered number of errors on these sites. Anyone can go in and edit them. As I said, it's a resource, just like the NY Times can be a resource, but we don't unquestioningly trust everything that is printed in the NY Times, right? Neither should we with regards to "Orthodox" Wiki.

I am aware of the site you linked to, partisans of Met. Kyrikos, and their calling it "Pan-Orthodox," but once again, on what authority do they consider the Council "Pan-Orthodox"? Just because someone puts some information in a wiki or on a website does not mean it is true.

That Moscow council was 350 years ago. If it was truly Pan-Orthodox, then there ought to be plenty of testimony from reliable Orthodox sources in the intervening centuries testifying as much. So, perhaps it might be a good idea to ask the followers of Met. Kyrikos on whose authority they call the council of 1666-67 "Pan-Orthodox". I have asked before, years ago, but have never received a satisfactory answer.

And besides Christ words himself: no man has seen the father at any time.

That is true, no man has seen the Father. He is invisible. It is no different for the Son. No man has seen the Son either. He is also invisible. The Son is the icon of the invisible God. (Col. 1:15)

Post Reply