Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

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Barbara
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Barbara » Mon 29 September 2014 4:13 am

Thank you for the explanation. What an interesting history to hear !

Regarding the Raleigh mission, my impression is that Mr Anastasios has moved elsewhere on the East Coast.
Assumedly the mission is closed now. You arrived to this Forum just a little too late. A few years ago, you could
have attended liturgies there.

Do you have to live there for any reason ? Why not move to a more urban area where there will be a choice
of True Orthodox parishes ?

I really like your avatar, by the way. That is the style with which I grew up. I liked it as soon as I saw it.

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Maria
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Maria » Mon 29 September 2014 4:18 am

Justin Kolodziej wrote:I have been dreading reading the responses! But it sounds like the known way to be lost is to know the True Orthodox Church (whichever one it is) is the Church but still reject it. Other situations are left to God. That sounds pretty reasonable, but I am betting there are more rigorous opinions out there! Maybe me just being Western and legalistic though.

As far as the name, it's Polish and roughly translates to "Wheeler". There are quite a few over there. Actually 2 different families in the same city I grew up in and people always called my dad when they meant the other one!

My father's father's father's...etc...village is called Kąkolówka. The area started out in Galicia or Red Ruthenia, but by the time the village was actually founded in 1429 (not sure when those ancestors arrived) it was under Polish rule. Then it passed over to the Austro-Hungarian Empire so when my great-great-grandfather got here it says either "Austria" or "Galicia" on the Ellis Island documents.

I can't rule in or out the possibility of them being forced to convert from Orthodoxy to Roman Catholicism. The history there on the borders between Polish and Slavic lands seems particularly messy.

We can pray first of all I have the courage to convert and then that I don't lose her and the kids in the process, and then that she does as well. I couldn't even get her to go to the Byzantine Catholic church in the area because all she knows is the Vatican II version of the Roman Church and she's happy with it. :?


Lord have mercy.

I will pray for your wife's conversion.
Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Justin Kolodziej
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Justin Kolodziej » Mon 29 September 2014 4:39 pm

thanks. To move I need to find a new job.
Also, probably as a chastisement for my sins, we keep running out of money even though plenty of others do fine on less. :oops:
Wherever even the last two or three are gathered together in His name, there He is in their midst.

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Barbara
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Barbara » Mon 29 September 2014 5:16 pm

Well, I would pray a lot to St Michael the Archangel, because it's almost sure that the devil is arranging everything to put maximum stress on your family so that you won't find the Church. Instead will be mired in worries about
employment, income level, strife due to complete difference of religious approach if your wife a Baptist.
That is tough to deal with. She sounds agreeable to the Novus Ordo Mass, but that doesn't mean she is ready for
this major change to a True Orthodox jurisdiction. It would take lots and lots of patient, careful explanation and
even then she may rebel, if the great Archangel is not helping here.
This IS the Catholic day for him, so maybe think about praying hard for assistance to defeat the devil's schemes to
tear apart your life this way !

I don't think it's your sins, as much as the devils' conniving to make everything come to a pressure point.
But it's wise of course to view such problems that way. However, without realizing the intense role of the devils
to combat every good move one makes, one will not be seeing all. That's my view of this dilemma.

One note : the Orthodox, by that I mean, the real Orthodox, not the fakes, are very, very attuned to the devils' actions.
Vatican II lost ALL that awareness to the point that even holy water is barely used these days and certainly not appreciated in the mainstream Catholic Church.
Now compare that dismal situation with a real Liturgy on Epiphany [Theophany] where there is a tremendous ceremony where the Bishop or Priest blesses a large vat of holy water. After which all the faithful run forward and beseige the tank. Everyone carries away as much holy water as they possibly can for the year to come ! Jars and jars and bottles and bottles are filled hastily and preserved with care through the year.
The tank will be depleted in no time at all : it's remarkable !
Something to see, it can't be described fully ! This only at a traditional Orthodox Theophany Liturgy.
The point is : people really BELIEVE in the power of the holy water to defend against devils.

KOSTACC
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby KOSTACC » Mon 29 September 2014 7:20 pm

Barbara wrote:Vatican II lost ALL that awareness to the point that even holy water is barely used these days and certainly not appreciated in the mainstream Catholic Church.


Reminds me of an old joke, "how does the Pope make Holy water ? He boils the hell out of it of course"

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Justin Kolodziej
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Justin Kolodziej » Mon 29 September 2014 10:45 pm

St. Michael...of course! growing up the church I went to was across the street from St. Michael's Ukrainian Orthodox Church (of course not True Orthodox, being under the Ecumenical Patriarch) and it had these giant icons of St. Michael the Archangel on the outside walls.
A correction: My wife's mom was Baptist but converted to the RCC. She is RCC...but even so, how do you even begin to tell her that the church we were so sure was THE Church really hasn't been since at least 1015, maybe even earlier, and 1276 at the very latest?
Wherever even the last two or three are gathered together in His name, there He is in their midst.

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Maria
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Maria » Mon 29 September 2014 10:51 pm

Justin Kolodziej wrote:St. Michael...of course! growing up the church I went to was across the street from St. Michael's Ukrainian Orthodox Church (of course not True Orthodox, being under the Ecumenical Patriarch) and it had these giant icons of St. Michael the Archangel on the outside walls.

A correction: My wife's mom was Baptist but converted to the RCC. She is RCC...but even so, how do you even begin to tell her that the church we were so sure was THE Church really hasn't been since at least 1015, maybe even earlier, and 1276 at the very latest?


I was a Roman Catholic for most of my life spending three years in a Dominican convent.

It was only when I was in the convent listening to a VHS of Thomas Merton and all those Buddha statues, that I began to question things in Catholicism. As you might be aware, Thomas Merton died when he was electrocuted due to a wiring problem in a bathroom. Water got on an electrical appliance and he was literally fried. However, the nuns really liked his tapes on Buddhist mediation, so I left. I could not handle that kind of ecumenism where Roman Catholics borrow from the Buddhists, who are not Christians.

How can a Roman Catholic be led to salvation through Buddhism?

Only through Christ and His Holy Church can we be saved.
Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.


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