Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.

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Barbara
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Barbara » Tue 13 January 2015 3:42 am

Lydia, we want to hear those stories to which you referred above about Hocna !
Thanks if you can find a way to convey them, perhaps in Intra-TOC Forum ?

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Maria
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Maria » Tue 13 January 2015 4:20 am

Barbara wrote:Lydia, we want to hear those stories to which you referred above about Hocna !
Thanks if you can find a way to convey them, perhaps in Intra-TOC Forum ?


If these stories are not beneficial to our salvation, but border on gossip, please spare us.
We do have a rule against gossip whether it occurs in the public or private forums.

Please keep to the topic at hand: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?
This topic also includes heresy and schism, which actions place one outside the Church.

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Lydia
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Lydia » Sat 17 January 2015 2:26 am

No, I don't gossip. But, if people post things that are untrue, they must be corrected.
The stories I meant are things I have heard, seen or been part of, or the accounts of people whose probity is beyond reproach.

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Isaakos
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Isaakos » Sat 17 January 2015 6:22 am

The Website for the GOC under Archbishop Stephanos in the USA is currently being update by Fr Stephen Fraser. If you want some good info though, visit http://www.orthodox-christianity.net

For "Matthewite" (Pejorative) stuff, you have to really use google translate and dig deep on http://www.google.gr using Greek Google. However, I am working on translations of Bishop Matthews Encyclicals, and I can direct towards some good encyclicals of his that describe, in his own words, why he believed Metropolitan Chrysostom of Florina to be schismatic, and that make clear the Faith-based nature of the rupture between the two.

Suffice it to say, without getting into Polemics, that if you believe the Cyprianite notion of "Potential Heresy" is heretical, that is, that heretics have a place within the Church before they are condemned by a larger Orthodox council, what would you think of the teaching that "Potential Schismatics" have a place within the Church before they are condemned by a larger council? What if I told you that the Former was built on the latter?

Food for thought.
Last edited by Maria on Sun 18 January 2015 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: corrected typo
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Lydia
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Lydia » Sat 17 January 2015 7:36 pm

Philaret The-Zealot wrote:The Website for the GOC under Archbishop Stephanos in the USA is currently being update by Fr Stephen Fraser. If you want some good info though, visit http://www.orthodox-christianity.net

For "Matthewite" (Pejorative) stuff, you have to really use google translate and dig deep on http://www.google.gr using Greek Google. However, I am working on translations of Bishop Matthews Encyclicals, and I can direct towards some good encyclicals of his that describe, in his own words, why he believed Metropolitan Chrysostom of Florina to be schismatic, and that make clear the Faith-based nature of the rupture between the two.

Suffice it to say, without getting into Polemics, that if you believe the Cyprianite notion of "Potential Heresy" is heretical, that is, that heretics have a place within the Church before they are condemned by a larger Orthodox council, what would you think of the teaching that "Potential Schismatics" have a place within the Church before they are condemned by a larger council? What if I told you that the Former was built on the latter?

Food for thought.

Thank you very much for the information, Philaret.
Last edited by Maria on Sun 18 January 2015 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: corrected typo by Philaret

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Barbara
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Barbara » Sun 18 January 2015 3:22 am

You mean : pejorative !
This is helpful to know why we don't see a Stephanos website yet. Thanks for explaining that Fr Steven Fraser is
preparing it.

Where would one look at the OC.net ? I always have struck out when researching there, so it never occurs to me to look there for info. Any threads in particular you might cite ?

As for your thesis, I have to digest that.

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Maria
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Maria » Sun 18 January 2015 5:27 am

Thank you, Barbara for pointing out that typo.

Philaret wrote:Suffice it to say, without getting into Polemics, that if you believe the Cyprianite notion of "Potential Heresy" is heretical, that is, that heretics have a place within the Church before they are condemned by a larger Orthodox council, what would you think of the teaching that "Potential Schismatics" have a place within the Church before they are condemned by a larger council? What if I told you that the Former was built on the latter?


Philaret, could you kindly go into more detail here. Or perhaps, just perhaps a priest could better explain this for us.

Right now my brain is in a fog as I have been battling a serious bacterial infection, but I am sure that others are probably confused too.

If a priest or bishop is a schismatic and has left the church without any good reason to form their own church just because they do not like their ruling hierarch, who has not committed any heretical or schismatic acts, then would not that man be a schismatic, and not a "potential schismatic"?

Same with heresy: If a person were to proclaim bold-facedly in church that praying with heretics is not wrong, then wouldn't that person be a heretic, and not just a "potential heretic"?
Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.


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