Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.

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Justin Kolodziej
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Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Justin Kolodziej » Tue 23 September 2014 5:42 pm

Hi...
After being dissatisfied with the current "Roman Catholic" (really Vatican II) Church and searching for the True Church, I believe it's among the True Orthodox. Of course there are many not in communion with each other each claiming to be the Genuine True Greek Church, and I have yet to untangle the Russian ones :lol:

But that means all my ancestors that I know of, let alone my wife's Baptist ancestors, lived and died without even suspecting that their Church was not the True Church, or at best hearing the True Church described as "Eastern schismatics" or "idolatrers". Are they all in Hell according to the Church? (even a relatively not so terrible part of it)

I guess what I mean is, how absolute does the Church make the principle "outside the Church there is no salvation"? Especially since I know that you say only Baptism with the correct triple-immersion form performed by the True Orthodox is the entry into the Church. (or is that part still disputed and matter for the polemics forum?)
Wherever even the last two or three are gathered together in His name, there He is in their midst.

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Maria
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Maria » Tue 23 September 2014 10:31 pm

We do not know much about the afterlife. We have to trust in God with the faith of little children, that He will show mercy.

All we can do is pray for our ancestors, relatives, and friends who have departed this life, and ask that the Lord may have mercy on them.
Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Priest Antonios
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Priest Antonios » Tue 23 September 2014 11:44 pm

Welcome to the forum Justin. I hope you find some of the help you're looking for here.

We have a great, merciful God and He loves everyone. It's not really our place to probe into matters far beyond us. What we can be sure of is that we will be held responsible for what we know.

In Christ,
Fr Dcn Antonios

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Barbara
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Barbara » Wed 24 September 2014 3:11 am

I like your "too confusing" answer to the Jurisdiction question. I can imagine how confusing it must be for new arrivals.
Don't worry about anything, therefore, just study and absorb at your most convenient speed whatever you can from
these various threads and topics while looking to see which True Orthodox Church you might feel best in [be sure to
not be daunted by the Russian ones ! They are good !!]

What nationality is your last name ? Welcome here.

PS I hope your wife will swiftly agree to convert !

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Lydia
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Lydia » Fri 26 September 2014 3:17 am

http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/metph ... rodox.aspx

Here is an article written by St. philaret. Perhaps it will help.
I cannot imagine the bewilderment of new inquirers to True Orthodoxy. I pray that God will set your feet on the right path. (mine too, by the way :) )

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Justin Kolodziej
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Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Justin Kolodziej » Fri 26 September 2014 11:50 pm

I have been dreading reading the responses! But it sounds like the known way to be lost is to know the True Orthodox Church (whichever one it is) is the Church but still reject it. Other situations are left to God. That sounds pretty reasonable, but I am betting there are more rigorous opinions out there! Maybe me just being Western and legalistic though.

As far as the name, it's Polish and roughly translates to "Wheeler". There are quite a few over there. Actually 2 different families in the same city I grew up in and people always called my dad when they meant the other one!

My father's father's father's...etc...village is called Kąkolówka. The area started out in Galicia or Red Ruthenia, but by the time the village was actually founded in 1429 (not sure when those ancestors arrived) it was under Polish rule. Then it passed over to the Austro-Hungarian Empire so when my great-great-grandfather got here it says either "Austria" or "Galicia" on the Ellis Island documents.

I can't rule in or out the possibility of them being forced to convert from Orthodoxy to Roman Catholicism. The history there on the borders between Polish and Slavic lands seems particularly messy.

We can pray first of all I have the courage to convert and then that I don't lose her and the kids in the process, and then that she does as well. I couldn't even get her to go to the Byzantine Catholic church in the area because all she knows is the Vatican II version of the Roman Church and she's happy with it. :?
Wherever even the last two or three are gathered together in His name, there He is in their midst.

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Justin Kolodziej
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Posts: 39
Joined: Sat 20 September 2014 12:02 am
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Location: Cary, North Carolina

Re: Outside the Church, there is no salvation?

Postby Justin Kolodziej » Fri 26 September 2014 11:54 pm

Barbara wrote:I like your "too confusing" answer to the Jurisdiction question. I can imagine how confusing it must be for new arrivals.
Don't worry about anything, therefore, just study and absorb at your most convenient speed whatever you can from
these various threads and topics while looking to see which True Orthodox Church you might feel best in [be sure to
not be daunted by the Russian ones ! They are good !!]

What nationality is your last name ? Welcome here.

PS I hope your wife will swiftly agree to convert !

Oh, forgot to mention I think the nearest one to me is actually Mr. (formerly Fr.) Anastasios! But I don't know if the Raleigh mission still operates...
Wherever even the last two or three are gathered together in His name, there He is in their midst.


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