Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

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JamesR
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Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

Post by JamesR »

I made this post on another forum and thought I'd share it here.

"The members of the Church shall not indiscriminately marry their children to heretics."

"It is not lawful to make marriages with all [sorts of] heretics, nor to give our sons and daughters to them; but rather to take of them, if they promise to become Christians."

-Canons 10 & 31 of Laodicea

"Likewise it seemed good that the sons of clergymen should not be joined in matrimony with gentiles and heretics."

-Canon 21 of Carthage

"Since in certain provinces it is permitted to the readers and singers to marry, the holy Synod has decreed that it shall not be lawful for any of them to take a wife that is heterodox..."

-Canon 14 of Chalcedon

"An orthodox man is not permitted to marry an heretical woman, nor an orthodox woman to be joined to an heretical man. But if anything of this kind appear to have been done by any [we require them] to consider the marriage null, and that the marriage be dissolved. For it is not fitting to mingle together what should not be mingled, nor is it right that the sheep be joined with the wolf, nor the lot of sinners with the portion of Christ. But if any one shall transgress the things which we have decreed let him be cut off. But if any who up to this time are unbelievers and are not yet numbered in the flock of the orthodox have contracted lawful marriage between themselves, and if then, one choosing the right and coming to the light of truth and the other remaining still detained by the bond of error and not willing to behold with steady eye the divine rays, the unbelieving woman is pleased to cohabit with the believing man, or the unbelieving man with the believing woman, let them not be separated, according to the divine Apostle, for the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife by her husband."

-Canon 72 of Trullo

Sources: http://www.newadvent.org, http://www.goarch.org/archdiocese/departments/marriage/interfaith/journal-articles-1/documents/patsavos-joanides-article.pdf

The Orthodox Church, at least in North America, allows its members to intermarry with Roman Catholics and Protestants. Through doing so, is it not violating the canons? I know that modern society--including the Orthodox--tend to use the word "Christian" as an umbrella term to refer to all heterodox sects, and thus try to use this as an excuse to somehow justify marriage to them. However, aren't they technically still just heretics according to the canons? They preach doctrines contrary to what we believe and are not in communion with the Church. I do not see any of the ancient fathers referring to the heterodox sects at the time as "Christians" and saying it's okay to marry them. Rather, they condemned them as heretics and told us to stay away from them.

Logically, wouldn't the doctrinally sound thing to do be to behave in the same way toward heterodox sects today? In the eyes of the fathers, they are heretics. And thus, it is un-canonical to marry them. We can't overlook the very real doctrinal issues that separate us anymore than the Church throughout history could have with the ancient heterodox sects that we now condemn as heretics and schismatics.

The only excuse I hear for this is "ekonomia." However, that's a bit of a loaded term because I've yet to see anybody give a clear definition of it. And even then, I don't think ekonomia means that we can directly violate the Church's teachings. Even the example of St. Paul telling that one person to be circumcised to appeal to the Jews is irrelevant because there is no rule in the Church that says you cannot be circumcised. St. Paul wasn't violating any doctrines or going against the teachings of the Church by allowing that person to be circumcised in order to appeal to the Jews. Circumcision was only condemned in the context of trying to gain Salvation through the Mosaic law; not in St. Paul's context. However, in the case of allowing intermarriage out of "ekonomia," we are clearly violating the Church's canons and doctrines.

If "ekonomia" is out of love, wouldn't the "loving" thing to do for a person be to do the thing that is best for their Salvation--which is upholding the Church's teachings--instead of violating the Church's teachings and thus spiritually harming that person?

My biggest issue isn't so much with this intermarriage thing, but with the underlying concept beneath it that the Church can violate the canons and Christian dogma out of some vague concept of "ekonomia." Isn't the Devil always in the details?

Bottom line, belonging to the OCA, I know many people that are married to non-Orthodox people like Baptists or Lutherans. And these marriages occurred after one of the parties was already Orthodox. I'm not one to judge, but allowing such marriages seems very un-canonical and opposed to the spirit of the Fathers. They didn't understand "Christian" to be an umbrella term denoting several sects but understood is as exclusively referring to the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church; those who didn't belong to it were heretics. Nothing more; nothing less. That said, I don't get this ecumenist distinction between "heterodox Christians" and "heretics" that many people in World Orthodoxy make, and somehow use to try to justify their mixed marriages.

What are your thoughts on such mixed marriages and should the Church allow them? I do not think so. And I don't think that "ekonomia" can justify changing doctrine. Just because it's hard to find an Orthodox spouse in the West doesn't mean we can justify sin. Muslims, Jehovah Witnesses, and other tiny religious minorities have figured out ways to acquire spouses in a difficult climate; why can't we do the same?

"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo (Confessions)

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Maria
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Re: Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

Post by Maria »

I have moved this thread into World Orthodoxy, since James' post mentions the OCA.

Not only the OCA, but also GOARCH and the Antiochians allow for interfaith marriages as long as the non-Orthodox but heterodox spouse is a believing Christian whether Protestant or Catholic. I do not know the policy of the Serbians, ROCOR, and MP, who are on the Old-Calendar, but who are World Orthodox due to their communion with ecumenists, especially the EP and the MP. I do not understand the logic of the WO who say that non-Orthodox heterodox spouses cannot receive the "Holy Mysteries" of confession, chrismation, communion, unction, and funerals, but they can receive Holy Crowning. It does not make sense.

In True Orthodoxy, couples both must be True Orthodox Christians as the Crowning ceremony is recognized as a Holy Mystery because Christ-God unites them in marriage.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Lydia
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Re: Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

Post by Lydia »

Maria wrote:

I have moved this thread into World Orthodoxy, since James' post mentions the OCA.

Not only the OCA, but also GOARCH and the Antiochians allow for interfaith marriages as long as the non-Orthodox but heterodox spouse is a believing Christian whether Protestant or Catholic. I do not know the policy of the Serbians, ROCOR, and MP, who are on the Old-Calendar, but who are World Orthodox due to their communion with ecumenists, especially the EP and the MP. I do not understand the logic of the WO who say that non-Orthodox heterodox spouses cannot receive the "Holy Mysteries" of confession, chrismation, communion, unction, and funerals, but they can receive Holy Crowning. It does not make sense.

In True Orthodoxy, couples both must be True Orthodox Christians as the Crowning ceremony is recognized as a Holy Mystery because Christ-God unites them in marriage.

I know that after the Second World War, when Russians were scattered throughout the world, The Metropolia and ROCOR would marry Orthodox to Heterodox spouses rather than letting their sons and daughters fall into sin by denying it. This was the decision of the Bishops at the time. What I do know from my own experience is that virtually all of the heterodox spouses eventually converted and, in most cases, became even more pious than the Orthodox spouse.
I have come to understand that True Bishops are guided in their decisions by The Holy Spirit, even though these decisions seem contrary to the canons of The Holy Church. As I said, in my experience many Roman Catholics and Protestants have been united to The Orthodox Church by marriage.

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Re: Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

Post by Archimandrit Nilos »

The "Old Calendar" is not enough !!

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Jean-Serge
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Re: Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

Post by Jean-Serge »

Many orthodox have been separated from the orthodox church by mixed marriage too. It is clearly the case in France. The small number of orthodox population is not an excuse for mixed marriage. Marriage is about love but also about spiritual unity, spiritual growth, spiritual mutual support with an union that remembers the one between Christ and His Church, which is impossible without common faith. The couple is supposed to form a little church, which is impossible with different faiths, unless you are an ecumenist.

Even celebrating the wedding in the orthodox church does not solve the problem because how is it possible that an orthodox mystery be given to a non orthodox? Do non orthodox commune, confess, receive the holy oil in the orthodox church? No? So, why should they receive wedding in the orthodox church. Is wedding such a different mystery?

The text of the wedding service clearly shows it is not designed for mixed marriages, but shows some non sense of mixed marriages.

From the service of betrothal:

That He may keep them in oneness of mind, and in steadfastness of the Faith; let us pray to the Lord.

Which Faith if it is a mixed marriage? Which oneness of mind?

Who did bless Isaac and Rebecca,

Abraham sent his servant to find a believing wife for his son, so that he does not marry a pagan

and seal their betrothal in faith, in oneness of mind, in truth and in love

From the service of crowning:

Give to them fruit of the womb, fair children, concord of soul and body

The discussion should deserve, I think, to be in the theological section of the forum.

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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Maria
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Re: Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

Post by Maria »

I have moved this thread into Theology. Thanks, Jean Serge.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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liefern
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Re: Should the Orthodox Church Allow Marriage to Heretics?

Post by liefern »

What should the Church actually do, do you think? What's the pastoral answer? Just consider an area temporarily lost and start again with monastic settlements and evangelization by example?

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