Fasting = one meal per day?

The practice of living the life in Christ: fasting, vigil lamps, head-coverings, family life, icon corners, and other forms of Orthopraxy. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.
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Jean-Serge
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Re: Fasting = one meal per day?

Post by Jean-Serge »

No problem. A quotation from Blessed Seraphim Rose

This rule of fasting, to be sure, is not intended to be a "straight-jacket" for Orthodox believers, nor a source of pharisaical pride for anyone who keeps the letter of the Church's law. It is rather the rule, the standard, against which each is to measure his own practice, and towards which one must always strive, according to one's strength and circumstances.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/father-s ... rules.aspx

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

jgress
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Re: Fasting = one meal per day?

Post by jgress »

Thank you for that beautiful quote, JS!

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Maria
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Re: Fasting = one meal per day?

Post by Maria »

Jean-Serge wrote:

No problem. A quotation from Blessed Seraphim Rose

This rule of fasting, to be sure, is not intended to be a "straight-jacket" for Orthodox believers, nor a source of pharisaical pride for anyone who keeps the letter of the Church's law. It is rather the rule, the standard, against which each is to measure his own practice, and towards which one must always strive, according to one's strength and circumstances.

http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/father-s ... rules.aspx

Yes, it is beautifully stated.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

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Jean-Serge
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Re: Fasting = one meal per day?

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It remembers me the advice that I was given some years ago when I was in GOC-Kallinikos regarding fasting and how to fast. It was to make "catadynamis" (I am not sure it is this word), it is a Greek word meaning to do it as best as you can, to the greatest extent of your strength, without lying to oneself. It might be in my case the shortest but best advice given regarding this topic.

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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Re: Fasting = one meal per day?

Post by jgress »

Jean-Serge wrote:

It remembers me the advice that I was given some years ago when I was in GOC-Kallinikos regarding fasting and how to fast. It was to make "catadynamis" (I am not sure it is this word), it is a Greek word meaning to do it as best as you can, to the greatest extent of your strength, without lying to oneself. It might be in my case the shortest but best advice given regarding this topic.

That seems basically the right approach. In practice, though, it's hard to gauge one's own strength on these matters; that kind of discernment only comes with long experience, at least for most people. Not only that, but to make spiritual progress we also have to learn to stop relying on our own strength. I think this is why I was told that it's important to have a spiritual father and obey him in matters pertaining to the spiritual life. By not trusting in yourself but in the instructions of your spiritual father, you acquire the true strength that comes from God.

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Re: Fasting = one meal per day?

Post by Jean-Serge »

According to my modest opinion, human strength is almost unlimited: I have seen so many people enduring hard things and still hanging that I came to this conclusion. Many things are in fact not physical but purely mental (or spiritual) like they say in some documentaries in which they show recruitment for special forces.

What does a "spiritual father" know about you after a first discussion, then a second discussion, then a third etc? Seeing how confessions are conducted in most cases, 3 minutes before liturgy and with speed because there is a queue behind (which is contradictory with the way confession should be made), I doubt the confessor remembers you (particularly in big places) or even knows you, unless you arrange some long meeting with him. Add to this that in many cases, in Russian parishes, the persons confess to any priest available (so the priest will change), there is a serious lack of knowledge between one another allowing to give personalized advice.. Add to this, that spiritual fatherhood is a serious choice by the two person : you cannot ask a priest to be your regular confessor or spiritual father without knowing him (see advice in Saint Nikodemos about choosing a spiritual father -i.e confessor- of experience, like a good doctor). The notion of spiritual fatherhood (or motherhood) is really worth discussing (I will open another discussion) because everybody likes using the word but the scope is very fluctuating, along with the expectations of the different people and the reality is what it is.

Many books written by Saints are in fact recommandations of spiritual fathers (true saints in this case) for people in general or for particular cases, that is why I give them much credit for guidance : they were written by people with spiritual enlightment for sure, so that makes them good guides, according to me the best. So, I would find quite reassuring that a confessor makes reference to writings from saints and tells it. I remember the first one I had in world orthodoxy used for penances the canons of Saint John the Faster (I think he might have been one of the few ones in Paris giving penances by the way). It indicates that what he does is a heritage from an old tradition. But the one giving advice coming without references would be quite worrying for me.

In my case, it worked very fine for me reading Saint Nikodemos, that, actually, acted (acts) through his books (Manual of Confession and Christian morality in particular) as a spiritual father. But, it is my case.

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Re: Fasting = one meal per day?

Post by jgress »

I don't agree with you about human strength. The strength to endure long fasts, pray unceasingly and endure torture and death for the faith is not natural to fallen humans. It comes from God. So a strong faith and humility are essential from the beginning. We can't achieve salvation by our own efforts, but only by God's grace. Therefore the ONLY path lies through obedience.

I think you should be careful on judging other people's relationships to their spiritual fathers or confessors based on what you witness in the pre-liturgy rushed confessions. For all you know, the people are just confessing small sins recently committed and want to approach the chalice with a clean conscience; they may also make longer confessions for more serious sins or get spiritual advice at other times.

The writings of the saints are very important and I believe that Orthodox people should read them in addition to receiving instruction from their spiritual fathers. But when it comes to things like prayer rules or fasting, I strongly believe it is dangerous to take a solitary path. I'm sorry that you seem to have trouble finding a spiritual father, someone who you confess to regularly, but I don't think you should be advising others to take their spiritual lives entirely into their own hands. That is not at all what I was taught when I entered True Orthodoxy and my experience bears witness to the wisdom of being obedient.

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