Fasting = one meal per day?

The practice of living the life in Christ: fasting, vigil lamps, head-coverings, family life, icon corners, and other forms of Orthopraxy. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.
Post Reply
jgress
Moderator
Posts: 1382
Joined: Thu 4 March 2010 1:06 pm
Jurisdiction: GOC/HOTCA

Re: Fasting = one meal per day?

Post by jgress »

Jean-Serge wrote:

I think regarding this topic that if the muslim can refrain from eating and drinking until sunset which might be really late some years (even if many of them will really overeat later, but not all), as orthodox, we should be really ashamed of not being able to fast until 3 PM! People with uncorrect beliefs take their religion more seriously than us. This is a sad truth, worth remembering in this fasting season.

Well, our rules are actually stricter. They must fast during daylight, but at night they can eat whatever they want (sweet fried food is apparently traditional to break the fast at sundown). We must eat and drink nothing till the ninth hour, and then we are allowed bread and water only (going by St Nicodemus). But I agree that we are very deficient in this respect. Each should try to fast as strictly as he can (with spiritual father's guidance, of course). At the same time, strict fasting doesn't make us holy by itself. Muslims think that they just need to follow certain rules and they don't need to learn mercy and love. Their approach to fasting and everything else is very legalistic, like the Jews.

User avatar
Jean-Serge
Protoposter
Posts: 1381
Joined: Fri 1 April 2005 11:04 am
Location: Paris (France)
Contact:

Re: Fasting = one meal per day?

Post by Jean-Serge »

jgress wrote:
Jean-Serge wrote:

I think regarding this topic that if the muslim can refrain from eating and drinking until sunset which might be really late some years (even if many of them will really overeat later, but not all), as orthodox, we should be really ashamed of not being able to fast until 3 PM! People with uncorrect beliefs take their religion more seriously than us. This is a sad truth, worth remembering in this fasting season.

Well, our rules are actually stricter. They must fast during daylight, but at night they can eat whatever they want (sweet fried food is apparently traditional to break the fast at sundown). We must eat and drink nothing till the ninth hour, and then we are allowed bread and water only (going by St Nicodemus). But I agree that we are very deficient in this respect. Each should try to fast as strictly as he can (with spiritual father's guidance, of course). At the same time, strict fasting doesn't make us holy by itself. Muslims think that they just need to follow certain rules and they don't need to learn mercy and love. Their approach to fasting and everything else is very legalistic, like the Jews.

That is true orthodox rule is stricter. But some muslims really know about mercy and love even with non muslims; saying they think they don't need to learn about mercy and love is really caricatural.

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

jgress
Moderator
Posts: 1382
Joined: Thu 4 March 2010 1:06 pm
Jurisdiction: GOC/HOTCA

Re: Fasting = one meal per day?

Post by jgress »

I didn't mean to judge them personally. I meant it is a characteristic of their religion.

User avatar
Barbara
Protoposter
Posts: 3983
Joined: Sat 29 September 2012 6:03 pm

Re: Fasting = one meal per day?

Post by Barbara »

I am glad that Jean-Serge pointed out that that remark by jonathan was condescending. Who can prove such an assertion
about an entire religion ?

It's better to not say anything when one has not studied very deeply about a subject.

Furthermore, Muslims customarily eat dates rather than fried food as their first food for what is called "Iftar" at the end of the day during Ramazan.

jgress
Moderator
Posts: 1382
Joined: Thu 4 March 2010 1:06 pm
Jurisdiction: GOC/HOTCA

Re: Fasting = one meal per day?

Post by jgress »

Barbara wrote:

I am glad that Jean-Serge pointed out that that remark by jonathan was condescending. Who can prove such an assertion
about an entire religion ?

It's better to not say anything when one has not studied very deeply about a subject.

Furthermore, Muslims customarily eat dates rather than fried food as their first food for what is called "Iftar" at the end of the day during Ramazan.

I think it is a completely reasonable statement. Islam and Judaism are both highly legalistic religions. This explains part of why they seem to take their faith so seriously: because it's all about the rules for them and it is easy to notice that.

User avatar
Maria
Archon
Posts: 8428
Joined: Fri 11 June 2004 8:39 pm
Faith: True Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOC
Location: USA

Re: Fasting = one meal per day?

Post by Maria »

jgress wrote:
Barbara wrote:

I am glad that Jean-Serge pointed out that that remark by jonathan was condescending. Who can prove such an assertion
about an entire religion ?

It's better to not say anything when one has not studied very deeply about a subject.

Furthermore, Muslims customarily eat dates rather than fried food as their first food for what is called "Iftar" at the end of the day during Ramazan.

I think it is a completely reasonable statement. Islam and Judaism are both highly legalistic religions. This explains part of why they seem to take their faith so seriously: because it's all about the rules for them and it is easy to notice that.

Even True Orthodoxy can be considered to be legalistic, especially when a jurisdiction has lost the faith and is practicing heresy. Then rules and obedience to the Elder become more important that the Holy Faith. Here I am speaking of HOCNA, which unfortunately still portrays itself as True Orthodox.

Our fast during Great Lent can become legalistic if we forget the very reason for our fast, which is to help purify our nous so that we can grow in Theosis. We Orthodox can also pig out after a daily fast and eat a huge amount of food after sundown.

I am reminded of a sermon which a New Calendar Priest in the OCA gave. He said that he was still blessing homes during Great Lent as Great Lent had arrived earlier than in most years. It had become a tradition in this OCA parish for the parishioners to arrange the house blessing to coincide with lunch or dinner. Of course, if the blessing took place at noon, the priest was expected to eat something and forgo the one meal per day rule, especially if he had a dinner appointment also for the same day. He did not talk about that aspect of fasting. Instead the priest zeroed in on the sheer quantity of food served at dinner.

So, there was this parishioner who boasted that he had fasted the entire day on coffee and water, and that this dinner was his first and only meal of the day. At this meal, his wife had served spaghetti without meat balls, shrimp, bread, olives, salad, nuts, and fruit for dessert. There was Lenten cake too. The man of the house served a huge serving of this spaghetti for himself, and then dished out a very sizable serving for the priest. The skinny priest replied, "Thank you for your generosity, but my stomach could not possibly handle all that food, and I would hate to waste any."

In his homily, the priest reminded us that when we binge eat during the evening on Fast days, we are violating the spirit of the fast.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

User avatar
Jean-Serge
Protoposter
Posts: 1381
Joined: Fri 1 April 2005 11:04 am
Location: Paris (France)
Contact:

Re: Fasting = one meal per day?

Post by Jean-Serge »

Maria wrote:

So, there was this parishioner who boasted that he had fasted the entire day on coffee and water, and that this dinner was his first and only meal of the day. At this meal, his wife had served spaghetti without meat balls, shrimp, bread, olives, salad, nuts, and fruit for dessert. There was Lenten cake too. The man of the house served a huge serving of this spaghetti for himself, and then dished out a very sizable serving for the priest. The skinny priest replied, "Thank you for your generosity, but my stomach could not possibly handle all that food, and I would hate to waste any."

In his homily, the priest reminded us that when we binge eat during the evening on Fast days, we are violating the spirit of the fast.

The idea behind eating bread, water, vegetables is that these are things that you do not have to cook, so you spare time dedicating to cooking and can spend more time praying. Eating dates is traditional for muslims but I could find this in the lives on some fathers that only lived on dates while fasting. It is a rich fruit in fact that contains sugars etc. So, I guess it is common in all regions where there are such fruits.

Additionally, shrimp is not necessarily a lenten food since it is killed animal and great lent is about going back to the state of paradise when no animals were eaten. Balsamon and Saint Nikodemos both rejected such consumption.

"In paradise, there was neither wine, not the slaughter of animals nor consumption of meat"

Homily for the Sunday of Cheesefare by Saint John Chrysostomus (probably attributed to him). It is one of the homilies that are normally to be read during the matins (Old believers keep this practice of reading homilies during matins). Page 50 in the Gospel Commentary translated by Hieromonk German Ciuba available at Saint John Krondstadt Press.

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

Post Reply