We should become peasants.

[Methodius]

There is great struggle in piety. There is great reward in hard work. But we should always work hard as it is good for the soul. Idle hands and all of that.

Anyway, I respect the Amish style of living. Their religion is all wrong, but otherwise they have it right with their hard living, constant work and morality.

There's no such thing as modernism running rampant in the Amish community!

What I am going to propose is pretty intense, hardcore, extreme, controversial, whatever, but I would like you to take this seriously.

What would you think of an Amish-like community where there were traditional gender roles, such as women teahing the children at a community home school, sewing and cooking while the men farmed and raised barns?

A traditionaist community of Orthodox Christians where every night there would be vespers, and the church would be the center of community life.

The negatives would be no electricity, no phone, no Internet, no indoor plumbing, no refrigerators, only heating by fireplace, lighting by candles. But one would always be working for the Orthodox community or worshiping.

I think such a life would be spiritually edifying and we would be away from all the evils and dangers of the modern world. Thoughts?

Seriously, I would like to see EVERYONE respond to this, positive or negative. If you don't like it, tell me why.

[Justin Kissel]

Methodius

What I am going to propose is pretty intense, hardcore, extreme, controversial, whatever, but I would like you to take this seriously. What would you think of an Amish-like community where there were traditional gender roles, such as women teahing the children at a community home school, sewing and cooking while the men farmed and raised barns?

If this were economically doable, I would sincerely be interested in living out my life in Christ at a place like this. With that positive note as a preface, some other thoughts. Where would this be? I'm guessing somewhere that would allow food to be easily grown: but where? As I said, I'm assuming food would be grown there, if so, what type of food(s) (and do you know how to grow it? ). Where/how would we store for the winter, especially if we weren't going to have refridgerators (you said no electricity)? Would we raise animals as well?

The financial aspect seems to me a secondary worry. Money can always be raised, it would just be a matter of time. However, what about cash flow once we starting living in the community? Realistically, there are still going to be bills to pay (property taxes, machinery repair and/or equipment maintainence, building materials, etc.) This could perhaps be supported by products made within the community (as monastics do), but I think this is something that would have to be discussed before we went too far into things.

A traditionaist community of Orthodox Christians where every night there would be vespers, and the church would be the center of community life.

And perhaps a FT priest if things worked out and God so willed?

The negatives would be no electricity, no phone, no Internet, no indoor plumbing, no refrigerators, only heating by fireplace, lighting by candles. But one would always be working for the Orthodox community or worshiping.

I assume vehicles would be allowed, for transport and emergencies. Also, my wife requires medication for her heart, so we personally would have other concerns the typical people wouldn't have.

I think such a life would be spiritually edifying and we would be away from all the evils and dangers of the modern world. Thoughts?

As long as this was thought of in the monastic sense, and not as an unjustifiable running away from problems, that'd be great

Seriously, I would like to see EVERYONE respond to this, positive or negative. If you don't like it, tell me why.

I would seriously like to hear more.

Justin

[尼古拉前执事]

Personally I lived on a farm, and we raised cows and chickens. We stored grain in bins throughout the winter for feeding the cows and chickens. So I know storage would not be an issue for anyone doing such a thing.

It seems if the women were sewing that much, they probably would make an excess of clothing that could be sold. As well as calves, and any excess grain, vorn, soybeans, etc. However I think in such an operations - especially amish style without vehicles and using plows behind horses, oxen or donkeys, each man would make enough food (grain wise) for a large family, so selling might not be an option for money.

Of course, I do not know how much one would need money in such a case, except in the condition above of medicine and doctors. Paying for the land would be the only issue, and land taxes. Perhaps if it was considered a religious community the taxes could be resolved since the people living there probably would not be using anything taxes pay for. (public schools, welfare, car damage on paved roads, etc.) I think Amish have deals like this from what I have heard.

Justin brings up the good point of transportation. Amish style would be horse and buggy I think. Anyone know for sure? But again, I would guess this would only be used to take clothes "into town" to sell?

It is a fascinating concept, but one that would take more than may be initially thought. What a difference in life on this confort-filled world of rapid information with the TV, radio and Internet!

Religious wise I think one would have to have a full time priest, but would any priest want to live in such a place?

[Bethany]

I think it's an interesting idea... but I think it's an idea (and ideal) that would need to be strictly overseen by a priest. I think decisions with such serious spiritual implications should not be considered without the blessing and help of a priest. Have any of you here heard of Mahopac, NY and the community there? I'm not sure if something of such an extreme nature (no electricity, strict gender roles, etc) would work. Mahopac, however, has worked.

[Justin Kissel]

I personally find the extreme part of it open to debate, so it would depend on what others would want (if someone was actually going to go ahead with this).

As to a priest, I dunno. I definately agree with you Bethany, a Priest should be consulted in doing this. On the other hand, a FT priest "right away" seems--while obviously beneficial--not a necessity. I think Eugene Rose (aka Fr. Seraphim Rose) and his friend Gleb (aka Fr. Herman) are a good example for some of this stuff. They did pretty much what you are suggesting, Methodius, only with the intention of being monastics, and not a normal "community". They didn't have a FT priest for many years... until one of them had been ordained.

They too didn't have electricity; one part of the biography on Seraphim Rose discussed the Fathers befuddlement as to why exactly they needed a phone (one of the "leading monastic leaders" told them that they had to have a phone. They did have vehicles after a time (after Fr. Seraphim spent most of his life avoiding them, not even getting a drivers license), and they did have electricity (a generator anyway), which they needed for their printing press. The rest was pretty much amish-style. They built their buildings, they had to go to town to get water and so forth (until donated money to have a well dug for them years later), the church was unheated, etc. I'd even say that the book Not of This World..., for all it's failings, should be suggested reading for anyone interested in doing something like this.

Bethany,

Mahopac, however, has worked.

Could you share some information about this? Or do you know where information can be gotten?

Justin

[Natasha]

It kind of reminds me of the Old Believers...

http://www.sltrib.com/2002/jan/01052002 ... 164676.htm

[Liudmilla]

This idea is hardly a new one....it has been dreamed by many. It is not a truly achievable reality. Going back to the days of yore, to the "good old days" of yesterday, is something everyone at one point or another has thought about. For me -- as a woman -- I don't particularly relish going back to that hard life. And it is a hard life.... Women aged tremendously under the stresses of such a life. The hard work (and believe me, I am not afraid of hard work), the daily toil to survive, leaves little for the nurturing atmosphere that you are painting. And even less for the spiritual life that you are looking for.

This life may be achievable in a monastic settling but hardly in a real time situation. The concerns of a monastic life are different than when you are struggling for the sake of your children and your family. The answer lies not in denying yourself the comforts of modern life, but in knowing how to utilize those comforts, in knowing which ones are best avoided and which ones are "needful".

No where does it say you HAVE to have a phone,that you have to have a computer or a tv or a microwave or a car, these are choices we make. If I lived close enough to a church I certainly would walk....but I live 40 miles from the nearest church...

I, myself, maintain the vegie garden at home....I happen to like to cook and bake, but I see no spiritual benefit in doing laundry by hand (I've done it...it's back breaking and you tend to use alot of explecatives doing it). You can't do sewing in poor light...it ruins your eyes....candlelight it is hardly powerful enough. Sewing clothes by hand takes a long time and does get done as fast as some of you gentlemen suggest. (I'm a seamstress too).

You CAN live an Orthodox life in this modern world --- you just have to work at it. Yes, it would be great living in an Orthodox community but the reality is that it's not available. That's why we tend to congregate around our churches when possible -- but it's not always possble -- so you learn to live in an Orthodox manner where you can and you surround yourself with Orthodox friends and with friends who like your lifestyle.

So go ahead and simplify your life, but think about this........
Did you ever consider that maybe your being Orthodox in the world will influence someone else to become Orthodox? and by isolating yourself out in the middle of no where you will not be fulfilling God's purpose?