Correcting others in love.....

Maria · Post by **Maria** » Thu 5 August 2004 11:57 am

Question #2

In addition to prayer, what would you do if a member of your family is a member of the KKK or Aryan Brotherhood?

ania · Post by **ania** » Fri 6 August 2004 1:22 pm

Answer to Question 2: You calmly ask them to explain their point of view, think about it, and then don't bring it up again until you've done research on the specific points they support, then calmy bring it up in conversation again and say "well, what do you think about this...?" If they are still adament, pray & hope some more.

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Fri 6 August 2004 1:49 pm

In addition to prayer, what would you do if a member of your family is a member of the KKK or Arian Brotherhood?

Have you considered joining ther KKK or Arian Brotherhood, attending their rallies, marching in their parades and being a member so that you could "fight from within"? Just an idea.

Seraphim Reeves · Post by **Seraphim Reeves** » Fri 6 August 2004 1:59 pm

OOD,

Having some familiarity with neo-nazis (at least of the "skin head" variety), I'd be careful about doing something they'd perceive as a "judas" betrayal from the inside. It's one thing to enter into a reasoned discussion/debate with one of them if they're open to that, but anything smacking of deception will not only feed their paranoia, but may also be very dangerous to the person pulling such a stunt.

I have an acquaintance who is very much into the whole "Aryan brotherhood" thing (he's a skinhead, his body is covered in "nordic" or "aryan" designs and emblems, etc.), and we've had some interesting discussions. The interesting thing is that I've gained his respect, "despite" the fact he knows full well I'm a "half-breed", my mother being a dreaded "race mixer". Ideas on how to engage such people, and get somewhere from a genuinely Christian p.o.v. is a subject unto itself.

Seraphim

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Fri 6 August 2004 2:03 pm

Seraphim,

Maybe you should sent your acquaintance to a Greek coffee shop, where the old men there will prove to him that he is really Greek.

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Fri 6 August 2004 3:01 pm

While I think your point was very good, OOD (it was addressed to fellows like you Seraphim, think about how it might apply to one's ecclesiastical life... ), perhaps this wasn't the best way to make it. Obviously Maria is looking for help, here.

Maria,

I'm not sure what advice to give you, other than telling you of my own experiences, and how they worked out, and what I'd wish I'd done differently. A few of my acquaintances (friends of friends) were into the KKK, none of them were extremely racist, to the point that they would physically hurt someone just because of their race. One time, there was suppose to be this rally in Johnstown, PA, and one or two of these people I knew were going, and asked our group of friends if we were too. Our response was that we were going to go to the counter-protest, being held by some group or other (NAACP or some group like that). I don't know what standing out there on that cold day solved; possibly nothing. At the very least, it was a non-confrontational way of telling people who knew us where we stood on the issue. Looking back, I wish I would have been a little more confrontational, though, since I could have used that approach among the people in question (I don't know if you could or not... please don't put yourself in a dangerous situation! ).

Another time, one of my friends who was in the Navy had come home for a holiday, Christmas I think. Some of our friends were sitting around playing the board game Risk, and the friend from the Navy began saying some things that made it apparent that his views had changed somewhat. Apparently, he had gotten caught up in all sorts of White (or Nordic?) Power stuff. He started in on all sorts of Anti-Christian rhetoric, saying that Christianity had wiped forced people to accept Christianity. At the time, I was a bit in shock. I wish I would have thought about things that night and went back the next day to talk to him again, but I didn't get the chance. If you can think your aguments through beforehand, that's good. What's even better is trying to think how they might counter your arguments... what are they going to say when you start talking to them? Then, try to figure out what the best way to answer them is, without it becoming way to harsh.

My friend from the Navy, for instance, was saying about how Christianity had forced conversions and done this and that. My response was "First, I didn't do that, I'm sorry if people claiming to be Christians destroyed or corrupted cultures. But you promote the Vikings and other such groups, when these groups did much worse, they not only hurt cultures, but raped, pillaged, murdered, and so forth." This didn't mean anything to him though... because he didn't care. He didn't attack Christianity because he honestly despised what they did, he just did it because that's what the music that he listened to said. He hadn't thought any of it through. He just took his ques from others. Think about whether your family member is like this before you start arguing with him. You might have 1,001 good points... but if he's not ready to listen, no amount of arguing is going to solve anything. In that case, setting a good example, praying, etc. is much more beneficial.

You might also introduce the person to something that might change their minds. I remember one time, when we were (again ) playing Risk, I had my Sevendust album on. Well, my one friend, who is what I guess you could call "slightly racist," heard the singer, Lajon, and absolutely loved him. It came as quite a suprise to him that Lajon was black. All he had heard all his life from his parents were how bad black people were, how they were lazy, they were ignorant, etc. That he respected Lajon as a singer was probably not going to change his mind, but it was at least a step in the right direction. It was a block to build on. Of course, he was open to going in that direction, that's important to think about before you start experimenting. Thinks could backfire, if he takes something the wrong way.

Regarding the Alcoholic, I think it depends on a lot of factors. How old is the alcoholic? Are the family members just hoping that he grows out of it? Are they in denial? Is he abusive? These aren't questions I'm expecting you to answer here... perhaps a priest or someone you trust would be good. But I think how you could best deal with the situation can't really be answered here. Ania gave a good answer, IMO. In the end, though, I don't think we have specific enough information to know what to do. I would suggest talking to someone in depth about it... someone with experience in that area. If for some reason you are uncomfortable with talking to a member of the clergy (or friend or family member), most phone books have lots of organizations for helping with various social situations.

Remember most of all to pray about it and "walk the walk," being meek and loving. I'm sure many of us are now praying for you.

Justin

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Fri 6 August 2004 3:55 pm

I have made this exact point in the past, but it never had "teeth" because it was just allegory. It is amazing how ridiculous it sounds when the advice appears real to a real question on worldly affairs.

I am sorry Maria to have to have distracted your sincere questions, and thank you Justin for really answering them.