Voluntary Celibacy Within Marriage

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Justin Kissel

Voluntary Celibacy Within Marriage

Post by Justin Kissel »

As I was doing my Church Fathers readings for the day I came across this in Socrates:

"In the same city of Alexandria, readers and chanters are chosen indifferently from the catechumens and the faithful; whereas in all other churches the faithful only are promoted to these offices. I myself, also, learned of another custom in Thessaly. If a clergyman in that country, after taking orders, should sleep with his wife, whom he had legally married before his ordination, he would be degraded. In the East, indeed, all clergymen, and even the bishops themselves, abstain from their wives: but this they do of their own accord, and not by the necessity of any law; for there have been among them many bishops, who have had children by their lawful wives, during their episcopate." - Socrates Scholasticus, Ecclesiastical History, 5, 22

Many times when the issue of clerical celibacy is discussed, Orthodox Christians take a defensive posture. This is really unnecessary, though. Admitting that there were priests who were celibate after being ordained does not (and will not) necessarily lead to the Roman practice as we find it today. I researched the "marital celibacy" issue some time ago, and thought it was a very interesting subject. I still got a lot of the notes, if anyone would be interested in discussing the topic? (if not, I might post some stuff anyway, just in case someone would be interested in reading about it but doesn't want to discuss it :) ).

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Post by Methodius »

Celibacy outside of fasting regulations of the Church and your spiritual father is a bad and possibly dangerous idea. I do not think that a priest would reccomend such a thing today.

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

When couples--including a Patriarch and his wife--chose to be celibate in the ancient Church, they rarely, if ever, told anyone else about it. There was no need to, if God has given you the ability to do it, then you should just do it. It isn't any harder today to do it than it was back then, it's just that today people seem less willing to try. I'll post some examples of couples choosing celibacy tomorrow...

Justin

PS. Just for the record, I'm not for do-it-yourself spirituality, or picking and choosing what to do in the spiritual life based on preference, enjoyment, etc. There are still people who can do this though, and it's important that they know they are not sinning or being disobedient by following such a path (if indeed God gives them the grace to follow it--which is the vital necessity for following it).

Last edited by Justin Kissel on Wed 5 March 2003 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Justin Kissel

Okay, I'll do them tonight rather than tomorrow :)

Post by Justin Kissel »

"(22 October)...On this day of the year 224 A.D., departed the father, the pure celibate, the fighter of lusts, the vanquisher of nature, Abba Demetrius I, the twelfth Pope of Alexandria... His flocks were straightened during his time. Because he rebuked the sinners much, and urged them to repent to lead a chaste life, some of them murmured and said, This man is married, how can he rebuke us?' The Lord Almighty wished to show them his virtues, so the angel of the Lord came to him at night and said to him,Demetrius, do not seek your salvation and let others be destroyed with their doubt.' The father asked him to clarify this statement and the angel continued, saying, `You must reveal the mystery which is between yourself and your wife to the people, that you might remove the doubt from them.' On the following morning, after he had celebrated the divine liturgy, he ordered the people not to leave the church. He took red-hot coal and placed it in his wife's veil and his garment, then they went around in the church and their clothes did not burn. The people were amazed at this miracle. He told them that he and his wife did not know each other as married people till that day. The doubt was removed from the people and they realised the purity of this father and his celibacy." - Pope Demetrius The Vinedresser

Venerable Theophanes the Confessor of Sygriane: "The saint was born in Constantinople, into a pious and prominent family. Theophanes

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Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

I agree with Methodius in that we should never take on a spiritual discipline beyond what the Church requests of us without the consent of our spiritual father.

I think St. Joh n C hrysostom spoke out against such a thing, but I cannot see a draw to or understand wanting to be married and celebate, so I think I'll stay out of that part of the discussion. :D

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Post by Justin Kissel »

Saint John did indeed speak against something like that, though if I recall correctly, what was happening was that people were claiming to be monks but living with "help mates" of the opposite sex. Saint John said that this was absurd and would many times lead to sin. I agree :) Of course, Saint John also thought the Virgin Mary had sinned... I think his view of our ability to flee sin was a bit more "liberal" than the rest of the Church... sometimes that was good in that he was much more understanding, and had a much more "pastorally caring" tone to his writings... on the other hand, it also means that he sometimes underestimated the abilities of human beings to succeed. We can also see this in his treatment of sin, the law, and the Jews before the coming of Christ, which also was a slightly different take than most of the rest of the Church had (you can read about that in his homilies dealing with the sermon on the mount). I can totally understand his position, but I do think we have to allow for human beings to go above and beyond what "typically" happens. Perhaps I'm not the best person to be talking about this subject, though, as it sort of hits "close to home" for me. As I said in the other thread, I think I'll bow out of some threads for Lent (or at least until after Lent). I don't think Americans--even Americans in the Orthodox Church--are ready for this type of teaching anyway. We have a hard enough time with the ordinary celibate paths.

God Bless!

Justin

PS. And in case you didn't know, friends, not all of us have spiritual fathers. The only man who I would have considered asking to be my spiritual father essentially told me not to ask, because he wasn't equal to such a responsibility. If every Priest took his sober-minded approach a lot of other people wouldn't have spiritual fathers either... though they most likely wouldn't be any worse off.

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Spiritual fathers

Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

Parad?sis wrote:

not all of us have spiritual fathers.

No, we may not all have them, but we all should. What kind of threads are you thinking of not participating in during the great Lent Justin?

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