Dante and Francis of Assisi

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Barbara
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Re: Dante and Francis of Assisi

Post by Barbara »

The Pope recently met and prayed with whom at Bari ? The New Calendar Russians -- ?
Who was it exactly, did you say, JdiGrande ?

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Re: Dante and Francis of Assisi

Post by Madison Grant »

Barbara wrote:

The Pope recently met and prayed with whom at Bari ? The New Calendar Russians -- ?
Who was it exactly, did you say, JdiGrande ?

No, the MP did not show up. It was a gathering of some EO and OO leaders in Italy.

Here is a 30min video on the event produced by Vatican News.

And here is an excerpt from CruxNow, a paper started by and then abandoned by the Boston Globe, where the Editor berates the MP for not showing up and being ecumenical like the EP.

Back in 1924, the nominee of the Progressive Party for Vice President, Burton Wheeler, hit on a novel gimmick to call out Republican President Calvin Coolidge on the campaign trail. Instead of just complaining about the incumbent’s unwillingness to engage his challengers, Wheeler set up an empty chair on stage and pretended as if Coolidge actually were in the room.

Ever since, the “empty chair” has been a symbol of a critical player’s absence from a conversation, usually with the suggestion that he or she has some explaining to do for not showing up.

Had there had been such an empty chair at last Saturday’s ecumenical summit in Bari, Italy, hosted by Pope Francis with the aim of praying for peace in the Middle East, it obviously would have been directed at Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, head of the Russian Orthodox Church and the day’s most glaring no-show.

Granted, Kirill did send what a Vatican aide described as a “beautiful letter” in response to the pope’s invitation and also dispatched a senior representative in the person of Metropolitan Hilarion, in effect his top deputy. Nonetheless, Saturday’s event was styled as a gathering of patriarchs from Eastern churches, and the absence of the leader of the denomination that represents roughly two-thirds of all the Orthodox Christians in the world still was keenly felt.

(In fairness, he wasn’t the only Orthodox leader to give Bari a miss. The Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch didn’t even send a representative, presumably because of a policy of not attending any event where the Patriarchate of Jerusalem is represented. The two churches are locked in a dispute over which one has jurisdiction over Qatar.)

Kirill’s decision not to attend the July 7 gathering in Bari was especially striking given that, in a sense, the whole thing was his idea.

https://cruxnow.com/news-analysis/2018/ ... es-summit/

jdigrande
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Re: Dante and Francis of Assisi

Post by jdigrande »

There is another aspect of Dante's work/ The Divine Comedy that divides the Latin Church from the Orthodox to this day. St. Paul tells us that the
"wages of sin in death."

Notice he does not tell us that the wages of mortal sin is death.

And that is where the Latin Church deviates from the Gospels and the Orthodox Church.

Purgatory and the indulgence system that backed it up in the Middle Ages divided sin in half: venial sins and mortal sins.

In the Latin scholastic system one commits venial sins and Heaven or Purgatory is your lot at the moment of death. Commit mortal sins, go to confession because you can go to Hell. But once out of confession, just don't commit mortal sins again.

The Divine Comedy back this system up culturally and had a great impact on the Western and especially northern and central Italian populace in that it was written poetically by a genius in much the same way that Homer poetically backed up the demonic religion of the ancient Greeks. It is the same way the arch heretic Shakespeare poetically backed up the heretical Protestant Revolt in Great Britain (which tore the fabric of the pre-Norman Orthodox world to shreds as much as the post Norman Papal world).

Francis of Assisi, Innocent III and a host of other Latin heretics are in Heaven in the Divine Comedy.

Stealing and raping Constantinople in 1204 was seen as a good thing by all of them (Innocent III felt guilty enough to denounce it for about two weeks and then happily kept all the treasures and ended up justifying it all as part of God's providence).

It is absolutely ironic in the extreme that the prelestian heretic Francis would shout his love of poverty to the skies and then bless the rape and theft of Constantinople in the same breath.

The Orthodox Church stands aghast and looks down their elect noses at the stone sculptures of the arch heretic Michelangelo or Chartres and yet happily (in 2nd Rome) taught their children to read and write not from the lives of the saints but from the pages of the pagan Homer and surrounded by demonic Greek stone sculptures of Athena, Zeus etc.

The heretics Homer, Dante and Shakespeare must be read like Darwin and Marx must be read by the Orthodox.

Why?

To love one enemies, one has to know ones enemies.

The pagan Socrates admonishes us to "Know Thyself."

And who is the greatest of our enemies?

Ourselves.

So do we (as the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church) keep the demonic Athenian beam in our eyes while aghast at the Pietan specks of the arch heretics Michelangelo, Shakespeare, Dante et al.

Or is the demon Athena merely venial while the Pieta is mortal as far as sin is concerned?

jdigrande
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Re: Dante and Francis of Assisi

Post by jdigrande »

The MP sent Hilarion to Bari as his legate. So the MP was there and participated in much the same way that the Roman Popes participated in the 8 Ecumenical Councils through papal legates.

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Barbara
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Re: Dante and Francis of Assisi

Post by Barbara »

Thanks for that answer about Bari. Did this event take place at the shrine of St Nicholas there ?

And why did Pat Kirill not show up ?

  1. Fear of what conservative elements in the MP would say ?

  2. Fear of loss of face in front of virulently anti-Catholic members of his flock ?

  3. Wish to not seem subservient to the Catholic Pope, nor available at a moment's notice to attend any meeting sponsored by the Vatican ?

Was Shakespeare really supportive of the [/color]Protestant Revolt [ accurate term ] in his poetry ? Or that of whoever was the real author of those plays ? Whereabouts are examples found if you can think of any offhand ?

jdigrande
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Re: Dante and Francis of Assisi

Post by jdigrande »

The event in Bari took place at the shrine of St. Nicholas which is under the Norman-built church. The video of both the event and the common prayer service afterwards (for peace) was posted here and is on You Tube.

Patriarch Kyril's legate showed up with a letter from Kyril. I have no idea why he did not show up. He did not show up in Crete in 2016 either.

Shakespeare was a Protestant and a loyal subject of the English Queen, the head of the Anglican Church. He was also a humanist and that is all portrayed in his poetry and plays as much or more so as his contemporary, Michelangelo who was Latin was portrayed in his sculpture, painting and poetry.

jdigrande
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Re: Dante and Francis of Assisi

Post by jdigrande »

There is another aspect of Francis of Assisi that needs to be stressed. He is the Father the the charismatic movement as well as liberation theology both now currently in vogue in the Protestant circles and Latin ones too. The main focus of the charismatics is the hunger for visions and the certainty that because one is saved and elect, any vision from God, the saints or the Theotokos is real and true. There is not a shred of doubt among charasmatics that perhaps the vision might be from Satan.

Spiritual discernment is thrown out the window. This started in the West with Francis. At the end of his life he traveled to the Middle East and sought to convert the Muslims of Egypt. Why was he drawn to them and not the "schismatic" Orthodox or even the heretical Copts?

I think he shared a common emotional bond with Mohammed who also said he was visited by Angel Gabriel who dictated the Quran to him in a cave. Both he and Francis immediately believed everything they saw with their big deluded egos. This is the mentality of the charismatic movement today- the hunger for rapture. Francis and Mohammed shared this hunger. It is prelest gone wild.

To them the Orthodox seem so boring! :)

One more thing about Francis.

He, along with Innocent III and the whole Dominican order were in rapture over the Inquisition which was promulgated in 1215 by the "infallible" Innocent III. "Kill the infidels and the heretics" was the byword of the latins in the Council of 1215.

For both the Latins (including Francis of Assisi) and the Muslims, killing people on a vast scale during the Crusades was a one way ticket to Heaven. In fact the torture and murder of heretics was for their own good. They thought they were doing both the heretic and God a favor by torturing them.

It was the guiding force in 1204 and this hunger for murder on a vast scale is another thing that Mohammed and Francis shared. It is no accident that the Latins and Islam are united today in prayer all over the world. They hunger for rapture and murder. A good example is that the Latins want to canonize the clerical mass murderer of the Serbs from 1941-45 and the Pope who supported it (Pius).

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