Orthodox apologetics

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someguy
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Orthodox apologetics

Postby someguy » Sat 13 October 2018 7:39 am

Hello wise and humble participants,

I have stumbled across this site and the article on Protestant refutation of the 7 books of the bible removed after the original;
https://jaysanalysis.com/2018/08/16/ref ... -jay-dyer/

What do the more learned on here comment?

Interestingly do people endorse this site and its texts and commentaries?
https://jaysanalysis.com/category/apologetics/

Thanks!

d9popov
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Posts: 159
Joined: Sat 10 June 2017 12:29 am

Re: Orthodox apologetics

Postby d9popov » Thu 18 October 2018 12:51 am

That website seems to have a fascination with Hollywood, Esotericism, and Protestantism. It is also amateurish. Paul Johnson was not an Oxford University church historian but a conservative writer for a popular (general) audience. Ian Paisley was a fundamentalist preacher turned politician, not a serious scholar. At a glance, the quotations from Church Fathers about the Septuagint and Gospels seemed authentic. The problem is that you will get so much non-Orthodox propaganda on this site and the attempts to give the Orthodox perspective are not especially learned or intelligent.

I will probably be criticized for this, but I still believe that Timothy Ware's section on doctrine on his book _The Orthodox Church_ can be very useful. His section on the Fall and ancestral sin is very informative. It can help one differentiate Orthodoxy from western approaches. He is completely wrong on ecumenism and some historical issues. Also recommended is Father Michael Azkoul's _Teachings of the Holy Orthodox Faith_ and the writings of Saint Justin Popovich. Father Michael Pomazansky's book is useful as well. At an advanced theological level, everyone needs to read Saint John of Damascus's _Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith._

If you want to learn about Orthodox apologetics, first set aside the Protestant questions and read ORIGINAL ORTHODOX TEXTS: the doctrinal definitions of the Seven Councils, Photius, 1285, Palamas, Synodicon of Orthodoxy, even Jeremias and Dositheus (who were not perfect, but very useful). Most of these ORIGINAL ORTHODOX TEXTS are online, and some have been posted here. If a website is sensationalist or focuses on responding to Protestant arguments, it is probably a distraction. Protestantism is a new religion invented 15 centuries after Christ. The more ORIGINAL ORTHODOX TEXTS that you absorb, the more Protestant debates will seem ridiculous.

Lastly, a great way to learn theology is to read Matins in the 12-volume Menaion. It summarizes the theology of the Church in a pious and prayerful way. LEX ORANDI, LEX CREDENDI

someguy
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Joined: Tue 10 April 2018 11:34 am

Re: Orthodox apologetics

Postby someguy » Thu 25 October 2018 8:20 am

d9popov wrote:That website seems to have a fascination with Hollywood, Esotericism, and Protestantism. It is also amateurish. Paul Johnson was not an Oxford University church historian but a conservative writer for a popular (general) audience. Ian Paisley was a fundamentalist preacher turned politician, not a serious scholar. At a glance, the quotations from Church Fathers about the Septuagint and Gospels seemed authentic. The problem is that you will get so much non-Orthodox propaganda on this site and the attempts to give the Orthodox perspective are not especially learned or intelligent.


Understood and agreed about the justifications.

d9popov wrote:I will probably be criticized for this, but I still believe that Timothy Ware's section on doctrine on his book _The Orthodox Church_ can be very useful. His section on the Fall and ancestral sin is very informative. It can help one differentiate Orthodoxy from western approaches. He is completely wrong on ecumenism and some historical issues. Also recommended is Father Michael Azkoul's _Teachings of the Holy Orthodox Faith_ and the writings of Saint Justin Popovich. Father Michael Pomazansky's book is useful as well. At an advanced theological level, everyone needs to read Saint John of Damascus's _Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith._


I looked into Timothy Ware and read certain texts from "fatheralexander.org",
one on church history (http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets ... ware_1.htm)
and the other on church practice (http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets ... ware_2.htm)
though he his a pro ecumenist under the ecumenical patriarch but the "right" kind of ecumenism?
Isn't http://www.fatheralexander.org/ a ROCOR evangelical site, does anyone know anything about this?
Also it seems very similar to http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/ ?
Though in saying that he did convert from Anglicanism in his twenties, devoted his life to the ministry and is no doubt very learned.

d9popov wrote:If you want to learn about Orthodox apologetics, first set aside the Protestant questions and read ORIGINAL ORTHODOX TEXTS: the doctrinal definitions of the Seven Councils, Photius, 1285, Palamas, Synodicon of Orthodoxy, even Jeremias and Dositheus (who were not perfect, but very useful). Most of these ORIGINAL ORTHODOX TEXTS are online, and some have been posted here. If a website is sensationalist or focuses on responding to Protestant arguments, it is probably a distraction. Protestantism is a new religion invented 15 centuries after Christ. The more ORIGINAL ORTHODOX TEXTS that you absorb, the more Protestant debates will seem ridiculous.


By these council doctrinal definitions do you mean what is list in "The Rudder" prior to each set of canons for each council?
Yes as an orthodox person I can accept this though Protestantism cannot and is the majority of actively faithful in Christ in these times so knowing how to scrutinize this would be beneficial I believe.
In saying that though maybe I am looking too much into Protestantism and it's failures... IE; looking for a silver bullet

d9popov
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Posts: 159
Joined: Sat 10 June 2017 12:29 am

Re: Orthodox apologetics

Postby d9popov » Fri 26 October 2018 2:32 am

Dear SomeGuy:

The Orthodox doctrinal definitions that I am speaking about are mostly NOT in the Rudder (Pedalion) and they are mostly in a council document OTHER THAN a canon --- such as a creed, tome, psephos, definition, encyclical letter, letter, etc. Some in the 1600s and 1700s are imperfect because they sometimes used Latin-Papal wording against Protestantism and (less often) Protestant wording against the Latins. Some are by individual ecclesiastical writers. Below is a partial list. Many are in Pelikan's book, _Creeds and Confessions of Faith in the Christian Tradition_ (2003). It is worth a trip to a good library to look at this book --- but only the Orthodox texts in the book, excluding the one by Critopoulos, who was influenced by Protestantism. Many of these texts in the list below are in English on the internet, but, unfortunately, not all in one place. Most are on the internet in Greek at Symbole.gr and other places. Almost all are in a book in Greek by John Karmires. I will try to past more info next week.

BY YEAR (MANY ARE COUNCILS IN CONSTANTINOPLE)
325: Creed, Anathemas, and Canons
381–382: Creed, Canons, and Letter
431: Definition of Faith
433: Formula of Union
451: Definition of Faith and Canons
553: Definition of Faith, Anathemas, and Letter
680–681: Definition of Faith
692: Canons
700s: Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith, by John Damascene
787: Definition of Faith
800s: Letters of Photios
843: Synodicon of Orthodoxy [short version] on Holy Icons
861: Canons
879-880: Canons
1017: Chapters Against the Opponents of Icons
1054: Edict on the Holy Spirit
1077: Condemnation of the Greek Philosophical Doctines of John Italus
1082: Condemnation of the Greek Philosophical Doctines of John Italus
1087: Condemnation of the Greek Philosophical Doctines of John Italus
1157: Dogmatic Chapters on the Lord’s Sacrifice
1166: Chapters on the Father and the Son
1170: Dogmatic Chapters
1341: Tome on the Energies of God
1347: Tome on the Energies of God
1351: Confession of Faith of Gregory Palamas
1351: Tome on the Energies of God
1368: Tome on the Energies of God; Glorification of Gregory Palamas
1439: Confession of Faith and Letter of Mark of Ephesus Against the Latins
1483-1484: Rejection of Latins and Uniatism
1500s: Patriarch Jeremiah’s Three Councils Against the New Calendar and Three Responses to the Lutherans
1500s-2000s: Numerous Synods Reject the New Calandar
1616: Cyril Loukaris to Moldavia Against Uniatism
1638: Decree (Psephos) Against Cyril Loukaris
1642: Constantinople Letter to Jassy
1642: Jassy Letter to Govenor
1672: Confession of Faith
1672: Tome
1691: Confession of Faith [six or more synods condemn Protestantism around this time]
1691: Decree (Apóphansis) on Transubstantiation (Latin terminology)
1722: Encyclical to Antioch (defends Latin error of Indulgences, not accepted by the Orthodox Church)
1727: Confession of Faith
1755-1756: Rejection of Latin Baptism
1836: Encyclical Against Protestantism
1838: Encyclical
1848: Response to Pope Pius IX
1868: Rejection of Invitation to Vatican Council
1872: Rejection of Ethnic-Racism
1895: Response to Latins
1917: Anathema Against Bolshevism
1960s-1970s: Letters Against Ecumenism by Saint Philaret
1970s: Writings Against the Pan-Heresy of Ecumenism by Justin Popovich
1983: Anathema Against Ecumenism by ROCOR


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